LADWP launches legal attacks to avoid air clean-up

drylakedustcloud

The current Los Angeles Department of Water and Power regime has gone back to what local officials call bullying, suing and ignoring old rules.  Their recent actions in the Eastern Sierra point to DWP’s quest for more water and more money.

In an effort to avoid any more expense on cleaning up Owens Dry Lake dust, LADWP refused an order from the Great Basin Air Pollution Control District to add 2.9 square miles to the clean-up list.  LADWP spent one day in mandatory mediation with APCD and then said mediation wouldn’t work.  DWP then appealed the order to the California Air Resources Board.  That Board issued a process for the appeal, and DWP then sued them over the process.

Next, DWP filed suit against the local air pollution control district because they don’t want to pay attorneys fees even though the state air board said they should.  The APCD board had issued an assessment for LA to pay $250,000 in attorneys fees.  DWP said, no, get it out of APCD’s reserve.

APCD Director Ted Schade issued a notice of violation for failure to pay with daily fines of $7500. DWP then filed a suit against the District order to pay attorneys fees and the notice of violation. This hard ball, sue at every turn approach has Inyo and Mono officials baffled and concerned.

Director Schade said that the agreements reached with LADWP six years ago spelled out the process for determining the completeness of the dry lake dust clean-up.  Schade said he has followed the process and issued orders to make air quality at the lake comply with mandatory standards.

DWP apparently doesn’t want to play by the rules set down. Schade said DWP has “pulled out all the stops.  They’ve decided they’ve spent enough money and put enough water on the lake bed, and they don’t want to do any more.” On the other side are air quality laws.  “We have one goal,” said Schade, “to meet air quality standards.  We’re done when the air is clean.”

Schade, who has tenaciously stood up for air quality, said DWP refuses to sit down with him to talk about the issues.  “There are no face to face meetings.  No communication among staff.  If they would sit down and talk about real needs on both sides, we could craft something,” said Schade.

Meanwhile, APCD has to defend itself.  “We aren’t a wealthy district,” said Schade.  He concluded that LADWP is trying to “starve us out,” he said.  Schade pointed to the fact that LADWP has hired eight or nine different attorneys.  He said they paid one firm $1.4 million just to deal with Owens Dry Lake issues.

At an earlier meeting, APCD Board Chair Mono Supervisor Larry Johnston asked DWP Manager Ron Nichols why spend all the money on legal fees when it could be spent on dust mitigation. Nichols said, “Legal fees pale in comparison to dust controls.”

At this point, DWP has almost finished with dust clean-up, but they’ve dug in their heels in front of a few more square miles of mitigation.

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inyoindian
inyoindian
10 years ago

Not to mention the natural balence of our valley, to me it seems like if you keep lowering the water table further and further down, due to all these culverts and concreted canals which emliminates the chance for recharge to our aquifers, also all the private and municipal water wells,… Read more »

MJA
MJA
10 years ago
Reply to  inyoindian

The DWP has created another diversion, no pun intended, for a reason.
By focusing everyones attention on rewatering a small piece of the the lake,
They are stealing all of the rest.
Hello!!!

=

MJA
MJA
10 years ago

No one has suggested LADWP stop getting water. For, I hope, the final time, I am saying they need to obey laws, agreements and promises. End of story. Benett I would suggest LADWP should stop getting the Owens Valley water and allow the Owens Valley to be naturally alive again,… Read more »

Sock Monkey
Sock Monkey
10 years ago

Part of the problem is that Inyo County is always on the defensive…we are constantly reacting to DWP’s latest maneuvers instead of looking ahead like they do. For instance, back in 1968 Los Angeles was instrumental in amending the California Constitution to prohibit Inyo county from taxing the export of… Read more »

entire tribe
entire tribe
10 years ago

How many licks from Bennett does it take for the Owens to flow?

Big AL
Big AL
10 years ago

I’ve read some of the history Wayne, very cool history there. The clampers set a historical marker there to commemorate that story in part with the history of Cartego’s role in the mining history. Which was, by the way, stolen, chiseled out of the dolomite rock it was set in.… Read more »

Ken Warner
Ken Warner
10 years ago

Here’s some history about the Bessie Brady — the steam ferry that operated on Owens Lake.

http://www.owensvalleyhistory.com/bessie_brady/page23.html

hisierragal
hisierragal
10 years ago

Dear FifesWife, re: toxic or particulate? (definitions from New Oxford Dictionary) toxic – poisonous so define poisonous if speaking of a substance: causing or capable of causing death or illness if taken into the body so particulate pollution is toxic as it is capable of causing illness And to Barney,… Read more »

Barney Fife
Barney Fife
10 years ago
Reply to  hisierragal

I have inside knowledge that these offers were made a long time ago. If your friend owned the house say 20 years ago and says there were no discussions, he probably has a faulty memory. In current times, that solution is off the table for political reasons, although I still… Read more »

FifesWife
FifesWife
10 years ago
Reply to  hisierragal

Spoken like a true layman. Particulate pollution is not toxic, it causes damage by virtue of its size. It is possible to have toxic particulate, but not all particulate is toxic. Cigarette smoke is a particulate, and full of toxic substances, yet, smoking does not DIRECTLY kill people. If so,… Read more »

Benett Kessler
Benett Kessler
10 years ago
Reply to  FifesWife

Good for you. Not everyone may be so lucky with particulate matter that does include arsenic and other unhealthy substances. What’s up with you, FifesWife. Sounds like you either have an axe to grind with the APCD or maybe you someone close to you works for LADWP. An open mind… Read more »

Kat
Kat
10 years ago

Fife’s Wife, I have to disagree with a comment in your post: “Are you one of those people who thinks the valley had a significantly different look back in the day? Granted, there were more riparian areas and meadows, and the sagebrush was taller and thicker, but it was still… Read more »

FifesWife
FifesWife
10 years ago
Reply to  Kat

Kat, Please go to the Eastern Sierra Museum and look at the pictures. The only reason the Valley was referred to as Switzerland was because of the high and close mountains. That is where any resemblance to Switzerland ended. Thank you, but I choose not to read propaganda. But believe… Read more »

Benett Kessler
Benett Kessler
10 years ago
Reply to  FifesWife

Fifes spouse, We who have researched the former state of the Owens Valley know what it used to be like. I have interviewed many people
first hand who saw what it was like and have read many accounts. Changes have continued since I moved here 37 years ago. Benett

Barney Fife
Barney Fife
10 years ago
Reply to  Benett Kessler

perhaps if you all want nothing to ever change, you should join the Republican party. I thought progressives were for changing anything and everything…

Benett Kessler
Benett Kessler
10 years ago
Reply to  Barney Fife

We are clearly not communicating. BK

MJA
MJA
10 years ago

I remember when there were rabbits living in the Owens Valley,
When there was water in the Valley,
That was before the DWP pumped it all and drained it all,
And killed it all.
Hey, where’s the canary?

=

Big AL
Big AL
10 years ago
Reply to  MJA

MJA just look on any road, you will see evidence of rabbits living in the valley, even though they may seem scarce, there’s plenty of them .. there is still water here, but it is getting scarcer. It sure isn’t the same green valley it once was. I think there… Read more »

Wayne Deja
Wayne Deja
10 years ago

I live down in this area…and can tell you the ONLY way to stop the dust is to fill the lake with water…which will never happen…The procedures they got to fix the problem does not,and will never fix the problem.The dust is as bad as it was in 2001..LADWP paying… Read more »

Big AL
Big AL
10 years ago
Reply to  Wayne Deja

You’re right Wayne, their current fix is not stopping the dust problem, sure is funny, how they can spend huge amounts of money to mitigate this problem in the fashion they choose to do. And the simple fix would to re hydrate the lake, but water is gold to them.… Read more »

Ted Schade
Ted Schade
10 years ago
Reply to  Wayne Deja

Wayne – The dust is not as bad as it was 10 years ago. Great Basin’s many, many (millions in fact) measurements show that dust emissions are down about 88 to 90 percent. This is confirmed by simply looking at the peak 24-hr PM10 levels. The high value in 2003… Read more »

Wayne Deja
Wayne Deja
10 years ago
Reply to  Ted Schade

Ted….On a day when the wind is blowing north-west,come to Lone Pine,or better yet,take a drive on Owenyo Road or to Keeler to take in the sights there…and then tell all of us down here there has been a 90% reduction in emissions since 2000.The measurements on machines say one… Read more »

inyoindian
inyoindian
10 years ago
Reply to  Wayne Deja

Thats right Wayne let them toot thier own horn and act like the next man couldnt have done any better.

Ted Schade
Ted Schade
10 years ago
Reply to  Wayne Deja

Wayne – All I can say is what the very accurate machines report. I would argue that the monitors are more accurate than our eyes. The fact that 90 percent of the area we mapped as emissive is covered with water, plants or gravel would lead one to conclude that… Read more »

MJA
MJA
10 years ago
Reply to  Ted Schade

Unless of course the dust problem area is much bigger than the 90%.
Isn’t the entire Owens Valley now a dust problem, not only the lake?
Thanks,

=

Ken Warner
Ken Warner
10 years ago
Reply to  Ted Schade

I’m not trying to pick a fight Ted but plants, gravel and even water are not 100% effective in preventing dust. Let’s talk about water. It the wind is blowing really hard, it can atomize the surface of the water and carry the particles in those small drops into the… Read more »

Sock Monkey
Sock Monkey
10 years ago
Reply to  Ted Schade

I know that the GBAPCD is concentrating on Owens Lake, but I agree with the comment by MJA about the increased problem of dust blowing in areas where the water table has been lowered to the point where the vegetation has completely disappeared. When will that problem be addressed? The… Read more »

Ted Schade
Ted Schade
10 years ago
Reply to  Sock Monkey

SM – You are correct, there are other areas in the Valley with dust problems, most of them on DWP lands. Great Basin is working with the DWP and their lessees on a number of other emissive areas in the Valley. For example, the Laws area has two parcels that… Read more »

MJA
MJA
10 years ago
Reply to  Ted Schade

“Great Basin is working with the DWP and their lessees on a number of other emissive areas in the Valley. For example, the Laws area…”

Your not driving the car are ya?

=

Clyde A.
Clyde A.
10 years ago

How about a class action lawsuit from the people of Inyo and Mono county’s. Lets kick them out of the Eastern Sierra’s! The uncontrolled distruction of our lands are not justifyed by the water needs of Los Angeles.

FifesWife
FifesWife
10 years ago
Reply to  Clyde A.

What uncontrolled destruction? Are you one of those people who thinks the valley had a significantly different look back in the day? Granted, there were more riparian areas and meadows, and the sagebrush was taller and thicker, but it was still mostly sagebrush, or to be more correct, Great basin… Read more »

Benett Kessler
Benett Kessler
10 years ago
Reply to  FifesWife

Those aren’t the only stupid mistakes. I have a magazine from 1912 that shows photos of the Owens Valley – a lush, green farm land of trees, farms, gardens and flowing water. It appears the difference is stark. I have also interviewed old timers who gave similar accounts. Check out… Read more »

Ken Warner
Ken Warner
10 years ago
Reply to  Benett Kessler

Benett, when you let it out you can be really pointed and forceful. I’d like to see more of that.

FifesWife
FifesWife
10 years ago
Reply to  Benett Kessler

Benett, I don’t disagree, but you are talking about farms, gardens, and flowing water that was manipulated by settlers, this was not the natural landscape.

Kat
Kat
10 years ago
Reply to  Benett Kessler

Bennett,

I would love to see those pictures.

Bob Loblaw
Bob Loblaw
10 years ago
Reply to  Benett Kessler

Then inherent problem with your post about “a lush, green farm land of trees, farms, gardens and flowing water” is that it was like that due to irrigation. Specifically irrigation that was already a severe detriment to the Owens River flows. On a personal note, DWP irritates me as much… Read more »

Benett Kessler
Benett Kessler
10 years ago
Reply to  Bob Loblaw

The fact that farmers created irrigation canals does not invalidate my post. The point was, the water was here and it made things very green. DWP has no interest in middle ground. But, the only thing they need to do is keep their word, live up to signed agreements and… Read more »

Barney Fife
Barney Fife
10 years ago
Reply to  Bob Loblaw

here here! I agree Bob. It is way past time that we find a way to close this chapter in environmental history. Mitigate the storms as best we can while recognizing no one will get everything they want, preserve the Owens Valley as the world class outdoor place that it… Read more »

Big AL
Big AL
10 years ago
Reply to  Bob Loblaw

No Benett, I say your wrong on the point of the valley being greener, the water was here and is still here, not as much as it should be, as it was before and during the first half of the last century. The valley was made greener through the irrigation… Read more »

Benett Kessler
Benett Kessler
10 years ago
Reply to  Big AL

The water is not here. LADWP diverts all of our stream and river water. They even pump back into the aqueduct
the water in the Lower Owens River. Plus, they pump the underground to fill their second aqueduct.
BK

Big AL
Big AL
10 years ago
Reply to  Bob Loblaw

I agree with Barney about this going on for so long and some individuals making a large amount of money off of it.

Big AL
Big AL
10 years ago
Reply to  Bob Loblaw

No Benett what your not seeing here is that yes the water is going south, but it went south back then as well. For all water that drains from the eastern side of the Sierras, drains to the river naturally. The river drains it from the valley, south. where it… Read more »

Benett Kessler
Benett Kessler
10 years ago
Reply to  Big AL

The water did flow into the river, but first it fed the underground and countless acres all around the streams. For heaven’s sake, there’s a huge difference between putting it all in a concrete lined aqueduct and shipping it out. Previously people were able to divert streams onto property and… Read more »

Reality Bites
Reality Bites
10 years ago
Reply to  Bob Loblaw

Big Al, You are not taking into account Ground Water Pumping that has lowered the water table resulting in the deaths of trees and deep rooted bushes.

Ken Warner
Ken Warner
10 years ago
Reply to  Bob Loblaw

Another thing that Big Al is forgetting is the seasonal floods during the Spring thaw. And the occasional flood from a thunder storm. Without the dams at Grant and The lakes in the Mammoth Lakes Basin and Crowley and Pleasant Valley and other places farther down the valley, the spring… Read more »

Benett Kessler
Benett Kessler
10 years ago
Reply to  Ken Warner

Yes. I was just thinking about the other patterns of water flow that LADWP disrupted. As you point out – the spring floods and the dams. And, many more streams and streamlets flowed out of the mountains and down to the Valley floor creating what Mr. Mairs called marshlands and… Read more »

Big AL
Big AL
10 years ago
Reply to  Bob Loblaw

LOL I think people think I support LADWP, no I don’t, I continue to post my feelings about what they have done, I don’t dispute what they have done, I only point out some things that I see as not making any sense in making a case against them. My… Read more »

Benett Kessler
Benett Kessler
10 years ago
Reply to  Big AL

Thanks, Big Al. Also, I prefer a computer keyboard to pitch forks and torches.
BK

Big AL
Big AL
10 years ago
Reply to  Bob Loblaw

Yes Ken, ideally without all of the dams and such, it would be different, I could say something about all of that too .. damming creeks and rivers to store water for hydro electric power, or irrigation. but then it might be construed as an argument against DWP, lol.

Big AL
Big AL
10 years ago
Reply to  Bob Loblaw

Ground water pumping will eventually cause serious consequences to the environment. If you pump the water out in excess of what the natural hydration can recharge, it will cause a cone of depression, where the water table will drop. It can also cause voids, that can cause depressions and sink… Read more »

Ken Warner
Ken Warner
10 years ago
Reply to  FifesWife

FifesWife — Your tactic of pretending to be one of us and then argue in support of LADWP is both clever and typical of the duplicity of LADWP. And really, talent that good is wasted as an amateur troll. You should get a job doing what you are doing. And… Read more »

Big AL
Big AL
10 years ago
Reply to  Ken Warner

Yes it would have taken some time …. way longer than a few hundred years for it to have dried up. But you’re right Wayne, it was killed before its time. The only thing that saved Mono lake, first of all .. LADWP was using it for a catch basin,… Read more »

Big AL
Big AL
10 years ago
Reply to  FifesWife

I don’t see there efforts on the Owens lake as heroic, how do you substantiate that claim. Actually, historically in pre-settlement days (when settlers came to the valley) All of the water that shed from the mountains and into the basin and drained away naturally in a southerly direction, did… Read more »

Rob
Rob
10 years ago
Reply to  Big AL

Riparian concentration probably was not a whole lot more than now, except along the river.???

Never the less, The most obvious human-caused changes in the Owens River riparian woodland have stemmed from diversion of the river by the Los Angeles Aqueduct.

Bob Loblaw
Bob Loblaw
10 years ago
Reply to  Clyde A.

Yes! Let’s kick DWP out, and fence everything off so nobody can do anything here! Or, we can think for just a moment, and come to terms with the fact that this peculiar standoff between LADWP and (For lack of a better word) Us is why we have so much… Read more »

Benett Kessler
Benett Kessler
10 years ago
Reply to  Bob Loblaw

Bob, This comment sounds like a victim trying to make the best of his abuser. Just because we all like the open land and low population doesn’t justify LADWP breaking ethical laws, man made laws, and signed agreements. No one has said LA should get out. LA should simply do… Read more »

Barney Fife
Barney Fife
10 years ago
Reply to  Benett Kessler

Invaded? Who twisted those poor farmers arms and made them sell? It is your (literal or figurative) ancestors that took money and sold their rights and set the whole thing up so LA could “invade”. Bottom line is that one of the best things that came out of this environmental… Read more »

Benett Kessler
Benett Kessler
10 years ago
Reply to  Barney Fife

Dear Barney, Tiresome as it is, here goes another response. My point is ethics. Your point seems to be to defend LA
at all turns. Best of luck. Benett Kessler

Big AL
Big AL
10 years ago
Reply to  Barney Fife

There was no invasion, your right, and people, at first willingly sold their land for the money, they saw as being a good price for the times. Times were very hard, and the money being offered was irristiable. But then when people realized that Los Angeles was taking the water,… Read more »

Reality Bites
Reality Bites
10 years ago
Reply to  Barney Fife

Barney is what is called in the business a “Good Little Nazi”

Barney Fife
Barney Fife
10 years ago
Reply to  Reality Bites

This one cracks me up – when you can’t argue intelligently, call them a nazi. Oh, now I am definitely on your side…

Bob Loblaw
Bob Loblaw
10 years ago
Reply to  Benett Kessler

Benett, my “kick DWP out” remark was more aimed (sarcasm and all) at Clyde A’s remark. Again, my sincerest hope is that we can all find some sort of middle ground. If LADWP stops getting water from here, there is no need for them to keep all this land, which… Read more »

Benett Kessler
Benett Kessler
10 years ago
Reply to  Bob Loblaw

No one has suggested LADWP stop getting water. For, I hope, the final time, I am saying they need to obey laws,
agreements and promises. End of story. Benett

Barney Fife
Barney Fife
10 years ago
Reply to  Bob Loblaw

I like this one too – I was “persuaded”. That way, I can keep the money and pretend I did not really sell out.

Big AL
Big AL
10 years ago
Reply to  Bob Loblaw

Good point too Bob, there is truth there, people can go just about anywhere on dept. land and just about do anything they want. That would not be true if it was govt. land or private land, govt. land would be well regulated or fenced off largely, private land would… Read more »

Ken Warner
Ken Warner
10 years ago
Reply to  Big AL

You are assuming that LADWP’s public land goes immediately into the private sector without reverting to it’s status as Federal land as much of it was prior to LADWP’s acquisitions.

Trouble
Trouble
10 years ago
Reply to  Big AL

Anybody know what kind of agreements Inyo County has with DWP?

Benett Kessler
Benett Kessler
10 years ago
Reply to  Trouble

Back in the 80s when LADWP had failed three times to produce an adequate Environmental Impact Report on groundwater pumping, they began to negotiate with the Inyo Supervisors. Much to the dismay of most citizens, except for some ranchers who have done DWP’s bidding as lessees, the Supervisors declared that… Read more »

FifesWife
FifesWife
10 years ago

I take issue with Mr. Schade’s statement that “we aren’t a wealthy district” Great Basin has a ton of money, its just that the majority of that cash comes from DWP. One should be able to visit the California Air Resources Board’s website to gain information on the relative size… Read more »

Benett Kessler
Benett Kessler
10 years ago
Reply to  FifesWife

FifesWife, I believe Mr. Schade meant in comparison with the funds LADWP holds (generated from sales of water and power), APCD’s litigation budget is a mere speck.

BK

Ted Schade
Ted Schade
10 years ago
Reply to  Benett Kessler

In comparison to DWP, we are indeed a mere speck. We had a court hearing in LA yesterday. DWP had 5 attorneys in the courtroom, Great Basin had one. Great Basin prevailed.

Trouble
Trouble
10 years ago

Barney- Benett gets mad when I call people names- so I got nothing left to say to you.

Barney Fife
Barney Fife
10 years ago
Reply to  Trouble

I assume that is because much of what you might say would have no thoughtful basis but would in fact just be the rhetorical equivalent of nananananana – picture a person with fingers in their ears who does not want to hear opposing views

Trouble
Trouble
10 years ago
Reply to  Barney Fife

No Barney- it’s due to how much I oppose your views on the way DWP treats this county . You would have to be deaf, dumb and blind to actually believe DWP has done all it could to cut down on the pollution.

Big AL
Big AL
10 years ago
Reply to  Trouble

LOL Trouble, I didn’t think you could hold your breath that long, not being a smart ass but making a funny comment. Seriously though, opinions can be expressed, but they can also be expressed in a positive way without all of the junk such as defamatory slurs and covered up… Read more »

Trouble
Trouble
10 years ago
Reply to  Big AL

Big Al- Your probably correct, but I quite enjoy being allowed to anonymously voice my smart ass comments.

Big AL
Big AL
10 years ago
Reply to  Big AL

hehe yeah it’s ok to be a smart ass Trouble .. but you know what I mean .. right on.

Barney Fife
Barney Fife
10 years ago
Reply to  Trouble

No matter what we talk about, someone always could have done “more”. We can all be better people than we are, treat our kids better than we do, love our friends more than we do etc. I will never argue that LADWP has done all it can and I will… Read more »

Benett Kessler
Benett Kessler
10 years ago
Reply to  Barney Fife

Mr. Fife, Care to be more specific? What have “the folks on the other side” done to
stand in the way of progress?
Benett Kessler

Barney Fife
Barney Fife
10 years ago
Reply to  Benett Kessler

Good post, and worthy of comment! I will give the other side, but tend to agree with you on many of your points. 1- Decades of bullying… I agree – but the other side wants to spend billions of dollars on untested and unproven technologies to provide uncertain benefit and… Read more »

Benett Kessler
Benett Kessler
10 years ago
Reply to  Barney Fife

You have left out the law. There are state and federal laws to protect air quality so citizens do not become ill or are forced to live under intolerable conditions. LA agreed to its responsibility for the huge dust pollution. The APCD proposed three clean-up methods. LADWP is free to… Read more »

Barney Fife
Barney Fife
10 years ago

Over compliance at any cost is what the enviros want in most situations. Money is limited in our society and we need to make appropriate decisions as to where it goes. This is a classic case of the enviros flexing political muscle to get at a perceived bottomless pit of… Read more »

Reality Bites
Reality Bites
10 years ago
Reply to  Barney Fife

WTF!!! LADWP diverted the water form flowing into the lake and as a result they dried up the Owens Valley Lake creating the biggest toxic dust hazard in North America and creating a huge health hazard for southern Inyo County. This is not about some wako enviros. This is about… Read more »

FifesWife
FifesWife
10 years ago
Reply to  Reality Bites

Bennet,
Did you miss the last 2 words in Reality Bites’ post? Remember about having a little civility in these blogs? That is really pretty rude.

Inyoite
Inyoite
10 years ago
Reply to  FifesWife

I completely agree that civility is lacking, and I’m not understanding the point of having “moderated” comments that allow namecalling. However, you may want to practice what you preach….

http://sierrawave.net/10414/town-government-braces/comment-page-1/#comment-6547

Or is it okay to call people thugs?

Inyoite
Inyoite
10 years ago
Reply to  Inyoite

Or, rather, “slugs”. Either way, Pot – meet Kettle.

Benett Kessler
Benett Kessler
10 years ago
Reply to  Inyoite

I still don’t know what you’re talking about. Would you care to be more specific?
BK

Benett Kessler
Benett Kessler
10 years ago
Reply to  Inyoite

I don’t get your thug comment.
BK

FifesWife
FifesWife
10 years ago
Reply to  Inyoite

Inyoite, you read too fast. The word I used was SLUG. A slug is a slimy, slow moving mollusc without a shell that lives in your garden and eats plants. Last time I checked slug was not a nasty word, although those government workers who I refer to as slugs… Read more »

FifesWife
FifesWife
10 years ago
Reply to  Inyoite

Inyoite, I don’t know what world you live in, but the difference between A..s clown and slug is miles apart. I could use a lot of dirty words in this blog, especially to some of the annoying and ignorant that write in, but I don’t. When I referred to Government… Read more »

Big AL
Big AL
10 years ago
Reply to  Inyoite

Bennet, I think he is referring to a comment you made in regard to LADWP, calling them thugs and bullying people, while isn’t as bad as other’s comments, it still is name calling. I believe this particular comment was in regard to some name calling that was going on with… Read more »

Benett Kessler
Benett Kessler
10 years ago
Reply to  Big AL

I actually did not call LADWP thugs, darn it. I should’ve thought of that.
Benett

Big AL
Big AL
10 years ago
Reply to  Inyoite

hehe ok Benett I will give you the benefit of doubt with my bad memory. I can’t find the post, OK I will go with the bullying comment.

Desert Tortoise
Desert Tortoise
10 years ago
Reply to  Inyoite

My father, a City of LA Burea of Engineers career employee, always called them the Department of Water and Parasites, complaining that there were too many of them hanging on a shovel handle while being paid more than employees of other city departments for the same, or often lower quality,… Read more »

Barney Fife
Barney Fife
10 years ago
Reply to  Reality Bites

The language and tone employed in this response is typical of the person who does not want to address the issues and resorts to name calling instead of considering facts. Lakes and rivers have been drying up for millennia without mans help and some believe that this one is a… Read more »

Benett Kessler
Benett Kessler
10 years ago
Reply to  Barney Fife

I will note that the current set up of pollution clean-up plans and procedures was negotiated and agreed to be LADWP
in 2006. These are all LA and APCD officials, functioning under state and federal air quality laws and procedures.
Benett

Barney Fife
Barney Fife
10 years ago
Reply to  Benett Kessler

Not True Benett. The currently deployed options were agreed to and they have been deployed as agreed. The current argument is about how to move forward and if moving forward is warranted. If all we were talking about was continuing to do the same thing we have done up to… Read more »

Benett Kessler
Benett Kessler
10 years ago
Reply to  Barney Fife

LADWP is now contesting part of the original agreement – the regular re-assessment process to determine
if additional areas need to be cleaned up.
BK

Ken Warner
Ken Warner
10 years ago
Reply to  Barney Fife

…and yet you employ the tactics you decry while implying that you don’t!

“Careful thought and measured response is usually not the turf of environmental whackos like reality bites. They prefer violence, name calling and intimidation to discussion, compromise, and reasonable action that folks can actually afford.”

Rob
Rob
10 years ago
Reply to  Barney Fife

Barney Fife – we’re not talking about Lake Manley here, we’re speaking specifically about Owen’s Lake.

THERE’S A BIG DIFFERENCE

Big AL
Big AL
10 years ago
Reply to  Barney Fife

I do agree that there is two causes Barney, like you say, the natural process of the lake evaporating, it is a left over puddle from an ancient inland sea. The desert is strewn with these dry lakes, you see them all over, when ever you drive in the desert… Read more »

Barney Fife
Barney Fife
10 years ago
Reply to  Big AL

Wow – finally an enviro (like me) who sees things clearly. I agree that man should always take responsibility for what man does. Now we have to figure out what man has done here that he needs to take responsibility for. Anyone who thinks that is an easy question to… Read more »

FifesWife
FifesWife
10 years ago
Reply to  Big AL

And the radicals in the “Green” community use emotion and opinions to back up their statements and when you don’t agree resort to name calling.In fact, they make up stuff to support their positions. All I want to see is some good science and rational thought. Actually, calling the dust… Read more »

Benett Kessler
Benett Kessler
10 years ago
Reply to  FifesWife

Do I detect a bit of personal bias here?
BK

Barney Fife
Barney Fife
10 years ago
Reply to  Benett Kessler

Of course! Don’t we all have personal biases based on our view of things? I like to back my personal biases with reasoned judgments and if yours are better than mine, I will change my personal bias and come closer to your way of looking at things. Of one thing… Read more »

Ted Schade
Ted Schade
10 years ago
Reply to  Big AL

Owens Lake would not be significantly drying naturally. Great Basin did not just randomly pick a lake level and require DWP to control to that elevation. In the mid-90s we developed a model which clearly shows that if not for DWP’s diversions, the lake would be essentially as full as… Read more »

Reality Bites
Reality Bites
10 years ago
Reply to  Barney Fife

Barney, when you totally mis-represent the facts, you will get the well deserved treatment. Your spin is so out of line, it deserves a strong response with some well chosen words. How about you just tell the truth.

Your own words convict you as being a tool for LADWP.

Barney Fife
Barney Fife
10 years ago
Reply to  Reality Bites

Just because someone sees facts differently does not mean they are mis-representing them. People like you seem to see the world as “us” and “them” and “they” can’t possibly have a decent or moral bone in their bodies and everything “they” say or write can be dismissed because “we” know… Read more »

Benett Kessler
Benett Kessler
10 years ago
Reply to  Barney Fife

Sir, I suppose, from a factual point of view, some may agree with you if you presented all of the facts such as: 1- Decades of bullying, condescension and selfish taking at the expense of the Eastern Sierra. I know I’ve witnessed it at countless public meetings over the years… Read more »

Ken Warner
Ken Warner
10 years ago
Reply to  Reality Bites

This Barney Fife guy is really good. Pulls all the sympathy strings and the “I’m like you” arguments and then tries to tell us that “…really, LADWP aren’t so bad….” when LADWP has been misrepresenting themselves and manipulating the people of OV since the time Eaton and his agents duped… Read more »

Durrell Coleman
Durrell Coleman
10 years ago
Reply to  Barney Fife

Hey Fife, Maybe you can convince Gomer and Goober, but the rest of us aren’t impressed. Ted Schade is a man of honor and integrity. He only wants to see the law upheld to protect the Eastern Sierra and all its inhabitants. He only flexes his muscles when a rich… Read more »

Barney Fife
Barney Fife
10 years ago

See my response above. People of honor and integrity differ on issues and assuming both of them have honor and integrity, they will come to a reasonable solution. I have great faith in that.

Durrell Coleman
Durrell Coleman
10 years ago
Reply to  Barney Fife

Okay, let’s test your “facts.” Release all the water back into the valley and the lake, then we’ll see what portion was caused by man. Great Basin has thought, listened, discussed, cooperated, compromised, and continues to be reasonable with the City. The City refused mediation and requests to meet and… Read more »

Rob
Rob
10 years ago

yeah right, it would never happen

MJA
MJA
10 years ago

If David wants to slay Golieth in our inequitable system of unjustice, he best learn how to sling a rock!
=

Reality Bites
Reality Bites
10 years ago

Same as the last century. “Might makes right”.

Reg Reagan
Reg Reagan
10 years ago

The bias in this string of news “stories” is comical…

Deb
Deb
10 years ago

It’s disgusting !! I have said it before….LADWP is an addict that is addicted to our water and they will do ANYTHING to get it. I wish they would wise up and just build their desalination plant and be done with it.