What happened to Rovana Cross?

IF

We received the following comment and included photo.  If anyone knows anything about the fate of the old Rovana cross, would you please comment.  Here is the Question we received from Steve Krafcheck:

“I drove up to Rovana today to see my old neighborhood.  I grew up there when the Union Carbide mine was operating.  I noticed the old cross on top of the hill that overlooks Rovana is gone.  I climbed the hill to see if it was just pushed over.  Nope, not a trace of it remains.  The cross was there about two months ago during my last visit to the area.  Did anybody ever report this?”

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Jake
Jake
8 years ago

Religion is mans way of control YOU… it has nothing to do with God or our Creator.

to sum it up religion is for puppets who cannot think, fall in line idiots

East v West
East v West
8 years ago
Reply to  Jake

Jake, I agree. Eastern religion per se (especially buddhism) is designed to assist you in taking the inward journey. Western religion per se (especially Christianity) is fear-based and is designed to promote external thinking: Your god is always “out-there” somewhere. You may see why many from that group called “The… Read more »

Eastern Sierra Local
Eastern Sierra Local
8 years ago

As an agnostic, but who was raised in a “Christian” household and society I find most religious symbols on public land an intrusion of my rights.

Religious Terrorism
Religious Terrorism
8 years ago

Christian terrorism comprises terrorist acts by groups or individuals who claim Christian motivations or goals for their actions. As with other forms of religious terrorism, Christian terrorists have relied on idiosyncratic or literal interpretations of the tenets of faith – in this case, the Bible. Such groups have cited Old… Read more »

Big AL
Big AL
8 years ago

If one has hate in their heart they can justify it with any means, in their own minds.

Cross-burning Christians
Cross-burning Christians
8 years ago

Beginning after the Civil War, members of the Protestant-led Ku Klux Klan organization began engaging in arson, beatings, cross burning, destruction of property, lynching, murder, rape, tar-and-feathering, and whipping against African Americans, Jews, Catholics, and other social or ethnic minorities. They were explicitly Christian terrorist in ideology, basing their beliefs… Read more »

Eastern Sierra Local
Eastern Sierra Local
8 years ago

And most members of the KKK were also Democrats.

Wayne Deja
Wayne Deja
8 years ago

Eastern Sierra Local……WOW,I think I heard Sean Hannity and Glen Beck say that same thing on FOX NEWS !!!!!….so it must be true…..We all know FOX NEWS never deviates from the truth….

The medium's the message
The medium's the message
8 years ago
Reply to  Wayne Deja

Wayne Deja –

Thanks for that. I see Fox has (wisely) dumped Beck and Palin trying to reach a more moderate base. Republicans better find a way to cater to our hispanic brothers and sisters if they ever want to win another election.

Jeremiah's stance
Jeremiah's stance
8 years ago
Reply to  Wayne Deja

Enough with the right Vs left arguments and never ending ego trips. If you haven’t learned the real fight is You and I versus Congress! Join the WolfPac on wolfpac.com and find out how you can take on the corruptive influence of money and how We The People can’t get… Read more »

Facts please?
Facts please?
8 years ago

Could you please furnish some facts that might prove your statement Eastern Sierra?
Or is just the same nutty, teaparty “Repubs are better Americans than Dems!” nonsense?
Thanks.

Senator from W. Virginia
Senator from W. Virginia
8 years ago
Reply to  Facts please?

Democrat Senator from V. Virginia Robert Byrd was a huge KKK Supporter.

Trouble
Trouble
8 years ago

That’s sure not true any more.

Jeremiah's stance
Jeremiah's stance
8 years ago

Enough already! !
Geez Big Al, you forget to state you are the same decaying organic material as the rest of us and your words/text is only your opinion and not the word of God.

The Christian Right
The Christian Right
8 years ago

Christian right is a term used in the United States to describe right-wing Christian political groups that are characterized by their strong support of socially conservative policies. Christian conservatives principally seek to apply their understanding of the teachings of Christianity to politics and public policy by proclaiming the value of… Read more »

Trouble
Trouble
8 years ago

Strike him down for that big Al!

Trouble
Trouble
8 years ago

I think Jeremiah’s saying your right up there with a organic radish Big Al???

Jeremiah's stance
Jeremiah's stance
8 years ago
Reply to  Trouble

@Trouble What I am saying is nobody should feel Superior when it comes to Religion and their beliefs, since no Religion is immune to the cycle of life and Earths Natural ways! I guess in a fantasy world Big Al can be a Organic Produce product, so then that must… Read more »

Big AL
Big AL
8 years ago

Where did I say it was superior Jerry? And I don’t get the comparison of ones faith and caring for the earth. They both are very important to me, if you are not a believer then that is cool, that is your thing, I have never said you have to… Read more »

Big AL
Big AL
8 years ago

OH wait a minute Jerry .. I never said I was God or speak for Him … where did that come from? Yes it is my thoughts and beliefs, God’s word is in the bible. I know I am only dust in the wind, here today and gone tomorrow. But… Read more »

Jeremiah's stance
Jeremiah's stance
8 years ago
Reply to  Big AL

Well to me you where getting carried away, by way of telling the gentlemen “No I don’t think you are going to Hell Mark” and all the other stuff you have been conditioned to believe and stand for. I mean I respect Religion and what it stands for but when… Read more »

Big AL
Big AL
8 years ago

You didn’t get my point Jerry, where was I trying to force my beliefs on you or anyone else? I merely was pointing out things I see or believe. Totally missed it. And I don’t like religion.

Jeremiah's stance
Jeremiah's stance
8 years ago
Reply to  Big AL

@Big Al, I guess the text and the way our brains work don’t allow us to fully comprehend the way we intend each other to grasp what we are saying but oh well, Right? No offense or hard feelings… Blogging elsewhere continues. I am really interested in getting your insight… Read more »

sierragrl
sierragrl
8 years ago

Has anyone asked the landowner if they took it down? Who is the landowner? BLM? the developer? I’m afraid I never noticed the cross so I’m not quite sure where it was….If its on BLM land, its likely they removed it…I’m not a fan of the BLM these days…completely out… Read more »

Big AL
Big AL
8 years ago
Reply to  sierragrl

Yeah sierragrl, I hear ya .. I only mentioned it amongst a few scenarios as to why it is missing. It could have been just really cool to someone, who knows?

Candy Stewart Mckinney
Candy Stewart Mckinney
7 years ago
Reply to  Big AL

I was raised in Rovana between 1953-1969…….I lived in house 12 on Montana street, one row down from the top. We played on that mountain all year long..going from “cracked rock” over to “The cross”. We were always told that settlers put the cross up when finished crossing the Sierra… Read more »

The "L" word demonized
The "L" word demonized
8 years ago

In certain political groups, the only acceptable form of religion for America is Christianity.
Those who say, “now wait a minute … what about the Jews, the Muslims, the Atheists?
are unceremoniously labled “liberals” – and believe me, that is a curse word for that particular group.

Ken Warner
Ken Warner
8 years ago

Atheism is not a religion. But your point is well taken.

Trouble
Trouble
8 years ago

Lets not burn down the mission over a missing cross.

familygal
familygal
8 years ago
Reply to  Trouble

I just saw a wonderful cross lit up high on a hill in Bridgeport this evening! I hope it is on private property b/c it looks fantastic!

Ken Warner
Ken Warner
8 years ago

Unintended consequences ==

When, in 1954, the Pledge of Allegiance changed from:

“…one Nation indivisible with liberty and justice for all.”

to:

“…one Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.”

It seems that we have become more divisible.

Jeremiah's stance
Jeremiah's stance
8 years ago
Reply to  Ken Warner

I agree Ken, we have become more divisible. Back when the bill of rights, declaration of independence, constitution was written, for the most part we didn’t have a choice but to come together in many ways to work together to be able to progress. Humans didn’t have the luxury of… Read more »

Ken Warner
Ken Warner
8 years ago

Yes. Our legal framework was written by and for people who knew how to take care of themselves and expected the same from others — ignoring the obvious contradiction of slavery for the sake of generality. Now there are just too many people to support that kind of individual independence… Read more »

Big AL
Big AL
8 years ago
Reply to  Ken Warner

Good points Ken

Church & State
Church & State
8 years ago
Reply to  Ken Warner

I’m completely in favor of the separation of Church and State. My idea is that these two institutions screw us up enough on their own, so both of them together is certain death.
— George Carlin

Big AL
Big AL
8 years ago

Yes it is hate … evil that resides within the heart, but I think more on the surface it seems to be resentment and non understanding of who God is. No I don’t think you’re going to hell Mark .. that is just another head trip laid on people. I… Read more »

Jeremiah's stance
Jeremiah's stance
8 years ago
Reply to  Big AL

Yeah!! What he said. . .

Benett Kessler
Benett Kessler
8 years ago
Reply to  Big AL

Talk about obsessions – you sure like to pick on Big Al.
BK

Big AL
Big AL
8 years ago
Reply to  Benett Kessler

It’s OK Benett, I accept it for what it is.

Gender specific?
Gender specific?
8 years ago
Reply to  Big AL

Why are you so sure God is a He, big Al?

God is a He
God is a He
8 years ago

Jesus refers to God as his Father. Try reading the bible before you act like you know what’s in it.

Benett Kessler
Benett Kessler
8 years ago
Reply to  God is a He

The ancient Hebrew word for God literally means He-She.
Benett

Trouble
Trouble
8 years ago
Reply to  Benett Kessler

So your saying he’s a transvestite? Know wonder they took the cross down.

Benett Kessler
Benett Kessler
8 years ago
Reply to  Trouble

Living up to your name again.
BK

Religion and shoes
Religion and shoes
8 years ago
Reply to  Benett Kessler

“Religion is like a pair of shoes…..Find one that fits for you, but don’t make me wear your shoes.”
– George Carlin

Tourbillon
Tourbillon
8 years ago
Reply to  Benett Kessler

In ancient Hebrew, having no vowels, the holy name is YHWH, which has been vowelized to Yahweh and then Europeanized to Jehovah. It is generally understood to mean “I am” or “I am that I am”. As such, it is gender neutral, but that is a far different meaning than… Read more »

Benett Kessler
Benett Kessler
8 years ago
Reply to  Tourbillon

I’ll check my source and respond ASAP. On page 698 of Albert Pike’s Morals and Dogma, he says the ineffable name of God can be interpreted as Hua and Hia, the personal pronouns (masculine and feminine) or He, She. Others have interpreted this as yin-yang or the creative force. Pike… Read more »

Big AL
Big AL
8 years ago

Well that is how I see Him .. what is the problem with that .. if you want to see Him as a Her … then go for it .. Why am I wrong for that? What makes me wrong for seeing God a s a certain gender? Why is… Read more »

Thou Protest too much
Thou Protest too much
8 years ago
Reply to  Big AL

Relax Big Al.
Have no interest in fighting with you.
We are all entitled to our opinion and beliefs.
That’s what liberalism is all about.

Benett Kessler
Benett Kessler
8 years ago

That’s what open-minded intelligence is about.
Benett Kessler

Religion is funny
Religion is funny
8 years ago
Reply to  Big AL

Religion convinced the world that there’s an invisible man in the sky who watches everything you do. And there’s 10 things he doesn’t want you to do or else you’ll to to a burning place with a lake of fire until the end of eternity. Because he loves you! –… Read more »

Big AL
Big AL
8 years ago

Religion will convince you of a lot of things .. God doesn’t convince you, He only wants you to believe in Him and try to be right in life. You have to be secure in what you believe in your heart, if you believe in God and Jesus Christ, then… Read more »

Steve K
Steve K
8 years ago

Thanks for the article Benett. It looks like that old harmless cross that stood for decades, fell victim to hatred and intolerance. I guess I already knew that. Tearing down that cross reminds me a lot of the Taliban back in 2001 when they destroyed the Buddhas of Bamiyan. The… Read more »

Destruction of religious symbols
Destruction of religious symbols
8 years ago
Reply to  Steve K

Steve K – I’m not surprised at the mention of the Taliban, (since this is America’s #1 dangerous group that just happens to coincide with the Muslim faith). But in all fairness, and in consideration of America’s “investment” in military action upon Muslim-based communities for the last decade or so,… Read more »

John Barton
John Barton
8 years ago
Reply to  Steve K

Yeah Steve K, the cross also might remind people of the Spanish inquisition (not pleasant) or people being burned because they were labeled witches or people publicly ridiculed by clergy for questioning the validity of the earth being the center of the universe, the earth being flat, Adam and Eve… Read more »

Big AL
Big AL
8 years ago
Reply to  John Barton

John, I don’t agree, Christianity is peaceful. Religion … is dark. I was was watching the memorial service for Jeremy McKay, the San Bernardino county Sheriff deputy who was killed by the former LAPD officer who went off and was killing people indiscriminately. In that service, which involved the county… Read more »

Eastern Sierra Local
Eastern Sierra Local
8 years ago
Reply to  John Barton

And let’s not forget how the intolerance of Christians are currently denying the rights of lesbians and gays based upon religion…..often times bringing up Leviticus as their justification; Leviticus also states that you shouldn’t eat shellfish, speak to a woman while she’s on her period, etc.

Trouble
Trouble
8 years ago

Sierra Local- I think you’re assuming most politicians are true Christians.

Big AL
Big AL
8 years ago
Reply to  Trouble

Amen Trouble.

Big AL
Big AL
8 years ago

Again ESL .. that is religion .. not the individual Christian. Not all Christian believe in such a way about gays. And you are furthering the fire of division by continuing the rhetoric. Be part of the solution, not the problem.

Mark
Mark
8 years ago

I removed a cross once. Someone thought our hang gliding launch would be a good place for a cross. If the people who put it up had any idea about the area or spent any time there they would have known it’s a 30 year old plus launch site. I… Read more »

RandyK
RandyK
8 years ago
Reply to  Mark

See ya in hell buddy. Seems like that’s where anyone with a sense of humor is bound to end up.

MJA
MJA
8 years ago

Crosses are symbols of human torture and quite horrific and morbid to me.
I would like to see them all gone.

=

A different point of view
A different point of view
8 years ago
Reply to  MJA

The Christian cross, seen as a representation of the instrument of the crucifixion of Jesus Christ, is the best-known religious symbol of Christianity.It is related to the crucifix (a cross that includes a usually three-dimensional representation of Jesus’ body) and to the more general family of cross symbols. However, in… Read more »

Joe
Joe
8 years ago

@ a different point– I agree and that was the point I was trying to make. It becomes a very slippery slope because other faiths would want to display their own symbols and heaven forbid if one symbol was displayed in front of another or had the best location etc.

Trouble
Trouble
8 years ago
Reply to  MJA

MJA- I doubt the people that put it there were thinking that way.

Big AL
Big AL
8 years ago
Reply to  MJA

You’re totally wrong as I see it MJA, that is only how you perceive it to be, what gives your perception right to remove it? Like anything in life, if you only see the evil, and you believe evil, then that is all you see. Religion and the evil in… Read more »

Jeremiah's stance
Jeremiah's stance
8 years ago
Reply to  Big AL

@Baggn4life that’s right! we do need more tolerance towards each other! How did it go @Writer with many names? remember one of the definitions of Liberal? “Tolerance to those beliefs that differ from there own”!
@Big Al to each’s own! just don’t tread on me! Right?

Hijacking words for political reasons
Hijacking words for political reasons
8 years ago
Reply to  Big AL

“…you only see the evil, and you believe evil, then that is all you see.” preaches Big Al.

Is this why those who disagree with you Big Al are labled “full of hatred.?”

Big AL
Big AL
8 years ago

Whoaw there Dr. Red Rider .. where did I label someone full of hate because they disagree with me or anyone else? “…WHEN you only see the evil, and you believe evil, then that is all you see.” Tell me, how is that labeling someone as evil, and where did… Read more »

Joe
Joe
8 years ago
Reply to  Big AL

Al- Remember the expression “a few rotten apples ruin the barrel”? The problem is enough people take their beliefs way too seriously that it creates for violence and intolerance of others’ beliefs. Why can’t people enjoy their symbols on their own property or place of worship?

Big AL
Big AL
8 years ago
Reply to  Joe

Yeah I hear ya Joe, yes. I know, it’s a paradox, because either way you offend someone. Some people do take it too far on both sides or all views, you’re right. Just a thought here, it is like gun control, some people want to control guns, others want to… Read more »

Bill
Bill
8 years ago
Reply to  Joe

I find cairns offensive and intrusive to my enjoyment of the great outdoors… 😉

Joe
Joe
8 years ago

I don’t see the Star of David or a tribute to Mohammad either. If that cross was on public land, it should have been removed. People of all faiths (and atheists) have fought and died for this country, therefore any religious symbols representing any particular faith should be removed. Separation… Read more »

Tourbillon
Tourbillon
8 years ago
Reply to  Joe

The Ten Commandments are on the walls of the Supreme Court. Congress opens session with a prayer. The President swears to uphold the Constitution with his hand on the Bible. These things are not unconstitutional because the First Amendment does not say “religion must be expunged from the public square”.… Read more »

You know the type, you know...
You know the type, you know...
8 years ago
Reply to  Tourbillon

Tourbillon –

Just curious.

Ever spend any time in Utah?

Tourbillon
Tourbillon
8 years ago

I’ve been in Utah and I liked it, although I am not a Mormon. I have also been to many other places you could not identify on a map if they were pointed out to you. What’s your point, Scooter?

Symbolism v Substance
Symbolism v Substance
8 years ago
Reply to  Tourbillon

Tourbillon – Whoa there Red Ryder. Don’t bust a vein. Just noticed your quips sound more than vaguely like those from the most hyper-conservative area on that map you are referring to. Utahns believe the more flags you own, the better American you are. Utahns also have their ears glued… Read more »

Joe
Joe
8 years ago
Reply to  Tourbillon

Tourbillon- As matter of facts, the 10 commandments and Moses are not prominently displayed on the Supreme Court (SC) walls and separationists have not made a big issue out of this. It is more decorational as the 10 commandments relate to early law history, NOT judicial governance of those using… Read more »

Eastern Sierra Local
Eastern Sierra Local
8 years ago
Reply to  Tourbillon

Actually “Tourbillion” the Supreme Court DOES NOT have the 10 commandments on the walls. In an interview with the designer of the freise on both the doors and behind the Justices he stated that they represent the first 10 amendments to Constitution AKA “The Bill of Rights.” Look it up.

One, true, American religion?
One, true, American religion?
8 years ago
Reply to  Joe

Good one, Joe.
We’re seeing another saga of those White/ Anglo-Saxon/Protestants believing there is only “one, true, religion.” And the belief that America should espouse their belief only.
Sometimes its subtle. Sometimes its an in-your-face thing.

Jeremiah's stance
Jeremiah's stance
8 years ago

Hey whats up y’all, My kind of debate. I fully agree with Joe on “People of all faiths have fought and died for this country” and no one religion should out weigh the other, especially in law or legislative form. (A big reason why I will never support the right’s… Read more »

Big AL
Big AL
8 years ago

Way to spread the hate Dr. Facts

Baggn4life
Baggn4life
8 years ago
Reply to  Joe

@Joe: Seriously? I suppose all the churches, temples, and synagogues should be removed from “public” streets. Exactly what is so threatening about a cross? We all need a little more tolerance.

Big AL
Big AL
8 years ago
Reply to  Joe

No I totally get what you’re saying Joe, I should have phrased that better, but the cross stands for everyone, Christians, Jewish, Atheists, Islamic, if you really think about it. God loves everyone and does not recognize religion, religion is only man’s hang up in how one perceives it.

Big Rick OBrien
Big Rick OBrien
8 years ago
Reply to  Joe

Hey Joe, say it ain’t so…there are THOUSANDS of crosses along the highways of this great nation. Some of them have been there for decades AND they are on public land. If someone was to be inclined to climb a mountain and plant a Cross, Star of David, Buddah, whatever…I’ve… Read more »

Big AL
Big AL
8 years ago

You could play out a few scenarios here … enough, I doubt that it was that chick. But you never know, could be the God haters, or someone wanted it like they wanted the rock art, or someone like you who grew up there, but doesn’t share the same scruples… Read more »

Randerson
Randerson
8 years ago
Reply to  Big AL

I believe it was relocated hills on the north side of Rovana, or was rumored to be. I have yet to spot it. About 16 years ago I buried my beloved childhood pet cat close to that cross, and it always served as a reminder of her. I thought the… Read more »

Heavy critique
Heavy critique
8 years ago
Reply to  Big AL

Whoa, Big Al!

“God-haters.?”
“Someone like you?” …

Pretty stiff indictment there – don’t ya think?

Big AL
Big AL
8 years ago
Reply to  Heavy critique

Nice try Dr. Facts!

Big AL
Big AL
8 years ago
Reply to  Big AL

But I wanted to clear up I didn’t mean to say you enough … as in someone like you, I meant to say someone like you who grew up there, but who had no scruples.
Ughh that didn’t sound like it was meant.

It's in the style
It's in the style
8 years ago
Reply to  Big AL

“God-Haters” Big Al?
My, my – how you like to bandy the word “hate” around when disagreeing with a posting.
Don’t you think others are wise to that sort of “debate?”
I think if people want that style of debate, they’ll just lisen to Rush Limbaugh or Glenn Beck.

Big AL
Big AL
8 years ago

I think you like to bandy it around … Dr. Facts I did not portray that scenario as I should have, but there are those who do hate God, and those that don’t believe in God or any deity, for that matter. Some people in these groups will remove such… Read more »

enoughalready
enoughalready
8 years ago

Just a hunch….. The CHP officers wife over in Paradise that has been spying on people in Round Valley and then sicking her husband on them. She decided that the Cross was inappropriate and soured the view in her spotting scope. The Cross therefore must to be remove. So …..Cross… Read more »

Victory
Victory
8 years ago
Reply to  enoughalready

Scary!!!

Baggn4life
Baggn4life
8 years ago
Reply to  Victory

@EnoughAlready: I live nearby, although not in the village. I don’t know anything about a whacky, spying CHP wife. I have never been asked for my ID, or otherwise had my rights violated. I didn’t realize the cross was missing, but my guess would be vandals. Do we really have… Read more »

Big Rick OBrien
Big Rick OBrien
8 years ago
Reply to  Baggn4life

It’s called SARCASM,Baggn.. You must have missed the earlier tidbit about…