A sierrawave.net reader provided photos of the damage and thefts at the petroglyph site. This shows an attempt to steal with four sides cut by a saw.
Still no arrests in the theft and vandalism of ancient petroglyphs near Bishop, and Bureau of Land Management officials still will not say exactly where the recovered petroglyphs are now and where they were found.
Bernadette Lovato, BLM Field Office Manager in Bishop, said investigators continue to work on leads. She said because this is still an ongoing investigation, she could not reveal any other details. Reports had indicated that an anonymous letter revealed the location of the petroglyphs that were stolen in November. Lovato said she could not say anything except that an anonymous tip led to the discovery of the stolen petroglyphs.
Said Lovato, “I can not disclose where they were discovered or where they are right now. We have to preserve the integrity of the investigation.” She did say that BLM really needs the public’s help now. She said, “We believe there are individuals here who have knowledge of this act. We need specific information,” she said.
Anyone with information can call anonymously either of two BLM investigators at 760-937-0657 or 760-937-0301. Lovato had earlier said that reward funds totaling $9,000 have been donated or pledged for information leading to the conviction of those responsible.
It was in mid-November when BLM revealed that someone had used ladders, generators and power saws to cut out and remove rock art at five locations, leaving many other artworks damaged. The petroglyphs represent activities that occurred at the site during the past 3,500 years, according to BLM.
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Bennett,
I heard the CHP officer took pictures of these people’s I.D. with his personal cell phone, is there any truth to this?
If it’s true is that Standard Operating Procedure for the CHP?
I will ask.
BK
What have you discovered?
Haven’t talked to the Lt. yet. Will do.
BK
Don’t know yet. Will do.
BK
Why aren’t cameras allowed???
Tom….Apparently,because the CHP officer….and his wife say so…
Good one Wayne. Hope their reading this.
LOL Wayne .. yeah … it seems to be the case here .. if the agenda fits wear it. Seems to be a personal agenda here.
Once again on video with friends I’d tell him pack sand.
Alone I would be forced to allow him to violate my rights.
Perhaps it’s time for the CHP to retire with his big fat paycheck
You guys need to understand the difference between a “consensual contact” and a “detention” by a law enforcement officer . If an officer detains you or restricts your actions/movements you are being detained. For an officer to detain you he must have a suspicion that a crime has occurred and that you are connected to that crime (as in you may have committed it or be involved with it somehow like a lookout). If the officer just walks up to you at a petroglyphs site and starts asking you questions they are well within the scope of their job and duties. Did the CHP officer ask to see ID or demand to see ID? There is a world of difference. If you are not being detained you do not have to show ID, answer questions, or do anything. If the officer gives you orders, makes you sit down, pats you down for weapons, orders you to show ID etc you are most likely being detained. At this point if you refuse to show ID or give your name you can be arrested for a separate violation of (148 PC) “resisting, delaying, or obstructing an officer” in the course of his duties.
The differences we are talking about here are the differences between an officer saying “May I see some ID please? (a question), or ” Do you have ID I could look at please?” (a question), and “Give me your drivers license please.” (this is a direct order to you). If an officer starts ordering you around then you are being detained. If you fail to comply you could be arrested.
The issues of IF the detention was lawful would be later argued in court. If it was unlawful then usually everything from that point forward is tossed out of court.
What you need to understand as a citizen is how the law works and have some basic understand of the power of the government and it’s representative (be them cops or code enforcement or whoever).
The cops are not NAZI’s. They aren’t out raping and pillaging. They are trying to protect life and stop crime.
If you think the officer’s actions were inappropriate you can go speak to a supervisor at any CHP or police station. If you think you are being blown off you can file a written complaint. Don’t lie in a complaint as you can get in trouble for that.
The CHP wife is a private citizen and she can do whatever she wants even though that sounds a bit strange. But hey they live here too and maybe they really want to protect the area and local resources so I could understand that. If the wife was not the spouse of a CHP officer and called in cops of some sort would still respond and check you out.
The cops aren’t the enemy and they usually give back to you the attitude you are giving them.
Sure Sean come to the rescue, Obvious there is something that the public would like to know and I am glad to hear it will at least be looked into.
Like I said before Sean the public might respect and take law enforcement serious if they held themselves to the laws they hold us two.
Also it doesn’t help when the medias show officers using excessive force and getting away with it, time after time. . . .
Thankfully there is more camera’s and other tools to expose cops short comings, they are only human. .
Didn’t I just say report them if the actions were inappropriate? Did you read my entire post?
And the vast majority of the public does respect, support, and take the police seriously.
So Jeremiah you are saying the police should stay away from petroglyph sites when clealy there are thefts happening from these sites? What do you think they should be doing exactly to protect these sites? Maybe if you went on a ride-a-long you would have a better understanding of the job police do. Which incident are you talking about where police used excessive force and got away with it?
Sean- 99% percent of the people who know Inyo and Mono County call this place a speed trap. Why? The other 1% work for the CHP.
“Did the CHP officer ask to see ID or demand to see ID? There is a world of difference.”
No there isn’t Sean, not in the real world. Say I’m out innocently standing around the petroglyphs, a crime scene in the middle of nowhere, and an armed man with a badge bustles up and “asks” for my ID, I think I’m going to regard it more as a demand. I don’t think I’m going to say, as I casually thumb through the law manual that I pull from my hip pocket, “officer, is that a question? Because if it is I think I’ll just tell you no – you and me, out here in the middle of nowhere, you with a gun, and my answer is no.”
And by what right does anyone from government have to even “ask” for my ID when there is ZERO evidence I have done anything wrong? I don’t give a rip about their motives or how frustrated they feel at failing to solve a crime in between ticket writing sprees. If I’m doing nothing wrong and there is no reason to think otherwise other than unfounded suspicion of everyone in society, they should not even “ask” for IDs, period, because under these circumstances my name is none of their damn business.They want to talk? How about “good morning sir” and leave it at that.
Regardless if the CHP asked for I.D. or demanded I.D. the 2nd you refuse to show them I.D. YOU ARE GOING TO GET THE BAD GUY TREATMENT
If I had video and friends with me I would probably tell him “Sorry I’m not showing you my I.D.”
Without the video and friends I’d give him what he wanted so he left as soon as possible without hopefully further violating my rights.
@Tourbillon – yes there is a huge world of difference. Having worked patrol for 3 yrs as a Reserve Deputy and as an Officer for 9 1/2 years I can tell you many people would question why I was talking to them when I asked for ID during a consensual contact. After I told them why I was talking to them they usually provided me ID or in some cases told me to F off. If I have no reason to detain them then I let them walk if they didn’t want to talk to me. This happened to me about once a week out of probably 20+ consensual contacts a week (in LA area I am talking here).
Just as you can go up to anyone anywhere and talk to them so can a police officer. And that officer can ask you questions, ask for ID, ask to search your car, ask if you are on probation etc etc. You may not like it but the Supreme Court of the USA has decided cops can do these things.
You are correct that a “Good Morning” and general politeness can go a long way in getting cooperation. Also explaining why you are there and talking to someone.
Traffic Tickets seem to keep coming up. Just don’t speed and you won’t get speeding tickets. Keep your vehicle registered and insured. Stop for stop signs and red lights. It’s not that hard not to get tickets.
I can indeed speak to whomever I please – but I don’t start the conversation by asking for ID or asking to search their car or inquiring about their probationary status. How dare you? Coming from an armed cop with no good reason other than curiosity, such nosiness is presumptuous officiousness that should indeed be met with an indignant retort because it is impertinent.
It is also impertinent to deliver lectures about traffic tickets to people you don’t know. The majority of tickets are nothing but an opportunistic means of raising revenue and you know full well that enforcement is highly selective. You also know full well that you’ve exceeded the speed limit yourself, so curb your sanctimonious moralizing. I haven’t had a ticket in years. Your advice is neither required nor desired.
@Tourbillon,
Well said! maybe I should take notes on how to reply in the proper way, and how to get a point across.
Awesome comment.
@Tourbillon – What can I add to that. Your comments say it all. Best of luck to you.
I think .. the issue with LEO’s asking for ID is pretty much SOP, asking questions is part of their job, again it is all about how they act and if they are hastling you or just checking out the situation.
I don’t see the sanctimony in or any sort of moralizing in Sean’s posts Tourbillon, I have to call BS. If i was to say there was an attitude problem, I’d say it was on your behalf in this commentary.
Yeah I told an officer once to spare me the lecture and give me the ticket. I was wrong, I rolled the stop and Gerkin and 395 one morning at 0-dark-thirty, no one else on the road but he and I.
He got the attitude first and it pissed me off how he was saying it, I didn’t want to hear it. I was wrong so write me the ticket so I can get to what I needed to get to. Maybe I was wrong for being short, but I didn’t disrespect him until he got all high and mighty.
Yeah and if you’re smoking your pot .. roll the windows down some so the cops don’t see the cloud filled compartment .. hehe
Seriously though .. as in everything in life .. it is all about attitude.
Good points Sean, my beef as I have said before is individual officers who have some sort of power trip. I have dealt with all types over the years, some good and some bad. Some times departments will foster unprofessional behavior. I don’t dis all law enforcement, rather it is the individuals .. when they have it coming.
And yes you’re right about the attitude thing, it goes both ways. As I have said, I feel sorry for the good cops who are trying to do their job in a professional manner, who care about people or the environment, or wild life.
They have to deal with people’s attitudes after they have had a run in with some of the bad cops. But people should give them the benefit of a doubt, that they are not the same as the butthead that cranked them down over something, for no reason.
I have dealt with the officer in question, I know exactly who he is and how he can be, intense is putting it nicely. Caring for the resources in this case is good, but how he approaches people with it … is a different story.
Hey Bennett –
Sounds like there is something going out there that might need your investigation and your spot light.
Regarding the comment posted that said a CHP officer and his wife were spying on members of the public and then
asking for ID, etc. – we are now looking into that. We have also asked USFS to look into it.
Benett Kessler
If they searched your house without a warrant, you will very likely own their houses. It’s called a 1983 Civil Rights action. It is a Federal Civil Rights violation and they can be held personally liable as well as their agency.
Taking your camera would also be a violation as well as preventing you from taking pictures in a place open to the public. You should really speak with a civil rights attorney and file complaints with the CHP and BLM on these violations of your rights if it indeed happened like you are relating.
I think the Nazi CHP officer and his wife need to be put in check.
“SHOW ME YOUR PAPERS” hail Hitler!
Big Al…I agree with you…IF I had info…which I don’t….I’d be a little bit leary to share that with an agency that would look at me as a suspect and maybe come by my home un-announced wanting to dig around my house with a warrant. ..and then threatening to come by again anytime they wanted,like it seems happened to Chip…and he was told by BLM and/or the USFS he couldn’t take pictures ?…..Once again,I’d have to shut down any conversation I was having with them REAL QUICK and request a Inyo County Sheriff to be present before I said or did anything. It seems some agencies…and their LE officers over-step their boundries at times…shut them down,ask for a real Law Enforcement officer, and not a whole lot they could do about it…
Wow .. we can’t even take pictures of rock art, OMG then I’m going to jail. But they’re welcome to come by the house anytime, the only thing I have to hide is my photos.
The thing is Wayne .. the CHP, Fish and Game are fully sworn officer s of the law in California, the USFS and BLM LEO’s are federal law officers. It won’t do much good to try to have an S/O to respond, unless they were not on federal or state land.
You’re right though .. some of the individual officers do over step their boundaries, and in more ways than one. It’s just the power issues some have, and they wonder why people don’t respect them .. but then, I guess they really wouldn’t care, if they are power tripping.
It is really cool when you come across someone in unifrom that is not a power tripper.
Big Al….I ain’t no big tough guy, or doing a lot of big talking,but if USFS,BLM or DFG came knocking at my door,wanting in to do a bunch of searching of my home,if they had a warrant,a good chance they would be accompanied by a S/O… but if they didn’t, I’d have a hard time letting them in without a Sheriff’s Officer present.
So CHP is now playing detective? I always wondered what they were doing hiding in those bushes.
Let me try to understand this….your telling me a CHP officer’s wife is using a spotting scope on visitors of the area,and then reporting it to her CHP husband…and then he comes by asking for ID’s and takes photos of the vehicle and license plates ?…If so,WOW !!
Team work Wayne … hehe
That’s exactly what the CHP and his wife are doing.
The people that had this happen yesterday are credible sources.
I think I would have to refuse to show him any id.
and if they threaten to take my camera I’d dare them to do it.
What the hell is going on with law enforcement?
Pathetic!
I am favoring the drone Idea more and more right now, to have them used as surveillance and monitoring only, I mean our liberties have already been infringed on so what difference does it make? only the guilty ones would have to worry. THEN there would be no combating of honest american’s that don’t deserve it.
We have held the law enforcement to a caliber no human being can meet, so now we are left with two very different playing fields when it comes to the book and reality.
Would not advise ever saying “our liberties have already been infringed on so what difference does it make?”!!!
When our right to privacy is violated, it can hurt many – even the innocent.
Benett Kessler
I hear that.
But where is the liberty now and days? it seems it doesn’t matter what I do as long as I conform to the status quo and not ask questions, and thats liberty just because I am not in jail?
What I know infringes on ones Liberty now and days is the warrentless wire taping within the the Defense Authorization Act, Also when the government was trying to put a sensor on the internet so they know the information we all are sharing with one another and or put a stop to it. so over and over they keep trying to limit Liberty.
Each decade it seems liberty has been shrinking..
It must be Mrs. Kravitz from Bewitched!
I am so dated now.
I dont understand, what highway was he patrolling?….the same idiot hassled me a month ago while i was taking photos…he called the BLM law enforcement lady and she took my info and threatened to take my camera[apparently you cant take pics out there]. 3 days later my door is forced open after I demanded a reason to open the door and a BLM and USFS law enforcement are tearing my house apart looking for ‘artifacts’…..they asked me where I got the ONE arrowhead on my shelf.I told them I made it in high school for a history class… it didn’t matter, they took it and threatened to come back at any time they wanted……and law enforcement wonders why there is a general distrust.
Yes Chip and Dave, that is my biggest beef with these agency’s law enforcement, and other law enforcement agencies, the heavy handedness of some of the officers.
I think some of them (BLM and Forest Service LEO’s and other employees suspect everyone, and yes all it serves to do it alienate people!
And they don’t get it when people have such disdain for them.
I think their might be some frustration and embarrassment on their part that they can’t get these people, but don’t take it out on everyone and treat everyone like a criminal.
I hear ya Dave, on it making you not want to help .. for me .. I feel like if I came forward with information I might have, they would automatically suspect me right off the bat, and that is pretty ****** to have happen when you are trying to help.
I could think of a whole bunch of things I’d like to see happen to the ones who did this, not nothing involving bodily harm, but I hope Karma bites them!
And I hope the LEO’s will stop being so paranoid of everyone and stop treating everyone automatically like suspects.
Chip I have made several arrowheads, I have even thrown some out here and there, hehe. The ones I have made out of glass must really throw some people for a loop.
I hope they had a warrant and if they didn’t , I’d be making some calls to an attorney. Hearing about all the crap that the BLM rangers, USFS rangers, and the DFWildlife wardens dish out, it seems to me that they’re sole mission in life is to do nothing but piss people off. Some people (male or female) have no business wearing a badge.
No Warrant? Quit being sheep and stand up for your rights.
The don’t crush the brush lady needs to be stopped to.
What a bunch of wack jobs
Chip are you getting an attorney?
What you are describing is a warrantless search. A serious violation of The Fourth Amendment (Amendment IV) to the United States Constitution. You should have also been given an evidence receipt for they arrowhead they confiscated. If you gave them your permission to come into your house and search then they are in the clear. If they had a warrant they should have given you a copy of at least the first page of it.
Dear Chip and Dave,
I spoke with both the CHP Lieutenant in Bridgeport and the BLM Field Office Manager Bernadette Lovato about these concerns. The Lt. is investigating. Ms. Lovato said her agency has spoken to Dave about the situation. She said the land in question was not BLM in his case. Lovato said she also questioned her law enforcement people who, she said, “were not aware of any scenarios like that described” in which BLM allegedly contacted someone at home and took artifacts. Ms. Lovato did invite anyone with concerns about this or more information to contact her at BLM. 760-872-4881.
Benett Kessler
Great follow up investigation Benett! Let us know what CHP says. You are the only investigative reporter in two counties who will ask the tough questions!
Dear Bernadette,
I have been having problems out in Round Valley with people making their own rules. First, I was harassed by some lady out there for parking on a dirt road near Paradise. She left a “Don’t Crush the Brush” sign on my car and told me not to park along there because of the deer herd. They lined the road with little rocks and left no place to park. I found a small spot where I could pull in without hurting the brush, but she still hassled me. She has no legal right to leave notices on my car or tell me where to park on public lands when I am not destroying the resource.
Today, I was at Boundary Road in Round Valley showing some friends from Mammoth a neat petroglyph site. I was explaining how people have vandalized it and to not disturb anything. The place was a mess with stuff on rocks that people have picked up. There are signs there now saying to protect the site.
A CHP officer drove up, asked for our licenses and told us he was checking to see if we were removing anything or disturbing the site. He said his wife looks through a high powered scope up in Paradise and reports to him anyone walking around the sites. Then he drives down and takes photos of the licenses and peoples car license plates. He said his name was Mike Mc something. Didn’t get the whole last name.
I told him that I had been coming to that area for 40 years and used to live in Rovana. I also told him that I have been monitoring arch sites and reporting vandalism for all that time to BLM or the FS. In fact, I volunteered a lot of my time to help Kirk Halford when he was here.
The cop still had to run our IDs.
This made me and my friends feel very uncomfortable. I feel that this officer and his wife are going way overboard. His job is to patrol the highways, not to do your job.
I can tell you as an ex FS employee, who had to do law enforcement on the Inyo for 30 years, that this officer was out of his jurisdiction.
He is probably a good person and officer but needs to back off the photographing licenses and treating people like me like suspects. I have done more for your agency than all your volunteers put together. I do it on my own. I don’t need to join a group or be a member. I am also a person who has spent more time hiking this area than most. I know where all the arch sites are, and I keep a watch on them. The tribe doesn’t know about me nor do they care. I have been protecting the resource all my life and really don’t need anybody’s help. I also teach children and adults about resource protection and have a blog.
However, this incident today makes me want to not monitor or help anymore if I am goiing to be treated like a criminal by some cop. Please tell these people to back off the public or they will create enemies between us, you, and the tribe.
Just because some idiots vandalized some petroglyphs doesn’t mean that we are all out there to destroy cultural resources.
And by the way, I sent Greg a photo of where the wagon rut used to be. I told him I would meet with him out there to show him, but there is nothing to see.
dave
I was just out looking at the rock near Rovana and a CHP guy pulls up wants are ids. Said his wife spotted us from there house a mile away. I am like spotted us doing what, we are looking at a rock. CHP guys took pictures of my RV and ID’s. Sorry but that is a load is BS… Next time ask your wife if we have a back hoe.
Realistic….In the Renee Fox case,not only was the family “told” not to go into the area and search (which isn’t something they can say without closing the area to everyone),but also the National search group Texas Equusearch was told their services were not needed….that she “was no longer in the canyon”.Tim Miller,head of the organization, said it was the first time EVER they were rebuffed by any agency when they were organizing a search for a missing person.The missing German case…a little different.Back in 1996,their van wasn’t spotted for 2 or 3 months after the fact..and everyone knew a search was going to be a recovery. I’ve been out near that area where the bones were found, and it’s a scary place,and not a good place to be.I can’t say as I blame Law Enforcement for not acting all out in that area when they knew it wasn’t going to be a rescue, but a recovery, putting others at risk. There is a site on the web titled “Otherhand…The Hunt for the missing Germans”,written by Tom Mahood that is fascinating and a great read….an amazing story from start to finish.Truly amazing the remains were found so long after it happened..but,according to Mr.Mahood,still lots of unanswered questions and the run-around he had gotten while doing his work out there…Whoever is into that case,they should read Tom Mahood’s account of the search and find….and how he ends his story……fascinating story….
You got it Wayne. Maybe they learned their lesson in the Renne Fox case. The Inyo Sheriff gave out information, did a poor search, gave up and a local guy on an ATV found her just off the road in a few hours. Same with the missing Germans. Tom Manhood searched towards China Lake where the Inyo Sheriff would not allow search cteams to search because the Sheriff “knew” they would not walk that direction. Manhood quickly found the remains and ID of the missing woman. The Inyo Sheriff put out a press release that stated that hikers “stumbled” across the remains when in fact, Manhood had done a detailed study of the Inyo Sheriff’s search effort, and based his search on his own research.
Perhaps BLM would rather not put out informantion so no one else gets the credit.
Realistic….That seems to be the way some “authorities” around Inyo County are…In criminal cases such as this,especially when a $$$ reward is offered for info,you got to release some specifics in order to generate leads and interest..not keep everything a secret because of an on-going investigation. Some in Law Enforcement say a very high % of solving a case is from public information they gather….same with missing persons,instead of coming up with their own “theories”,on what might have happened…a good example of that is the 2006 Renee Fox case in Mazourka Canyon,when she went missing and people were being told she had gotten a ride and made it out of the canyon,and was probably missing because she WANTED to be missing.It just seems if they are having trouble finding leads,open up a little bit and just maybe the public can help out.
Wayne you are right. Sometimes you have to give out information to get information. Providing more pieces of the puzzle to the public may generate the leads that BLM needs. It’s not like the suspects don’t know where the items were found!
..If they really want any kind of info on this,chances are they’ll have to release some type of info in order to get it….not keep everything a secret,except to the “authorities” that,apparently,are having a hard time sorting it all out.And if I knew anything about it,it would be Inyo Law Enforcement I would be telling…Last time I made a report to BLM about a problem in the Alabama Hills,they didn’t know where Lone Pine was…