Letter to the editor: Local man feels under surveillance

chp_logo1.jpg(This letter was written by David McNeil for the head of CHP in Sacramento.  McNeil shared his letter with Sierra Wave.)

I was out looking at an archaeological site a few months ago with friends in an area called Round Valley, ten miles north of Bishop, CA.

A CHP officer pulled up and asked to see our licenses. He also took photos of our vehicle plates.

He said he was investigating the recent thefts of petroglyph panels and told us how his wife surveys the entire Round Valley from their house nearby in Paradise with a high powered scope.

He said she called him, and he diverted from his regular duties to come and harass us without probable cause. That is Los Angeles owned land, and we had every right to be there. We were not disturbing anything or removing anything.

We felt that the officer was way out of his jurisdiction to treat us in that way without a bonafide reason. I even tried to explain to him that I used to work for the Forest Service and was responsible for protecting cultural resources. I also explained to him that I volunteer my time to help the local land agencies to protect the archaeological sites. He did not listen. As far as he was concerned, we were guilty for just being there.

We contacted our local news people, and they published the story. I talked to the officer’s boss on the phone in Bridgeport. He was apologetic and said he would talk to his employee about the matter.

The fact is that the lieutenant never did talk to his employee and blew all of us off in the community.

He flat lied to me on the phone. Not cool! Not one bit!

We would appreciate if you would tell the lieutenant in Bridgeport to get his employee off our back and quit doing personal stuff on state time.

Why is this officer out on dirt roads taking calls from his wife to shake people down, when he should be out on the highway that we pay him for?

David McNeil

This behavior is extreme and out of control. It borders on gestapo tactics and is making enemies between the CHP and the public in the Eastern Sierra.

The public cannot even go out and enjoy their land without these two weirdos ruining the day.

94 Responses to Letter to the editor: Local man feels under surveillance

  1. salblater April 12, 2013 at 9:11 pm #

    for the guy or gal with many usernames. your way of base with your labeling me a right wing extremest. I voted both times for oboma, I don’t listen to limbaugh, I don’t watch fox news or msnbc. i’m not a bible thumper, far from that. I don’t agree with extremest views from either side of the isle. I have family and friends that are democrats and republicans, there are times when discusions get pretty heated but I’ve never heard anyone say I can’t wait for you to die, then the world will be a better place, until your posts, and saying people are just angry unhappy sad souls. I think that says a lot about your own soul. and even though we disagree I would still wish you a good day and stay safe.

    • Nothing new under the sun April 13, 2013 at 4:26 pm #

      Salblater –

      Interesting that you claim to know so much about my soul.

  2. Tony Cumia April 11, 2013 at 12:57 pm #

    I love the direction these threads always head….remember what the original subject was about?………A cop not doing what he was hired to do for the California HIGHWAY Patrol…just saying.

    • Wayne Deja April 11, 2013 at 2:56 pm #

      Tony….I think it headed in that direction (why I don’t know) when someone mentioned how the Government was trying to take everyone’s guns away……and we all know which party is trying to put that idea in everybody’s heads….and when I think of it,a hot topic now at that liquor store picnic table in my town that I was talking about in my last post.What I find funny is ,most ,if not all of the time,when someone starts ranting about how our Government is trying to take people’s guns from them,usually saying it is people (angry people) that don’t even own a gun…or if they do,it sits in their closet gathering dust and spider webs.

    • The way it is April 11, 2013 at 4:05 pm #

      Everything today is politics Tony.
      With no end in sight.

  3. salblaster April 10, 2013 at 11:22 pm #

    for conservatism, a mental illness. what a load of b.s. if someone does’nt agree with your oppinions than they are mentaly insane, and can’t form complex thought, thats one of the most ridiculous statements i’ve ever heard. but you do have a study from a berkeley proffesor backing it up, wow! what a shocker a berkeley proffesor saying conservatives suffer from insanity, what are the odds of that. sounds to me like you also need someone to hate to get thru the day.

    • For hate-mongers only April 11, 2013 at 10:07 am #

      Salblaster –
      Kindly direct you anger towards professionals who have been studying the psychological profile of todays conservative. There are many of us who have been watching with grave concern how easy conservative gurus such as Rush Limbaugh, Ann Coulter, Hannity, Glenn Beck … et al can manipulate certain types of very unhappy people. Clearly hate-mongers adored by hate-mongers

      Jost, Glaser, Kruglanski & Sulloway



      • Wayne Deja April 11, 2013 at 12:02 pm #

        What we ALL got to do is try to understand,and accept the “angry conservative”method of living life…They will NEVER be happy with anything…always finding fault,and blaming others…good example,our local liquor store in the morning…The owner,a really friendly,nice,good guy to deal with…but outside at the picnic table,usually 3 or 4 angry men sitting,talking and bad-mouthing something or someone…..usually involving politics,but not all the time….Sometimes ,hard to understand…They all own nice cars or trucks…own beautiful homes that are paid for…have great kids that are successful…..retired,or close to it, with enough money to live well for the rest of their lives…..but still angry.And it’s EVERYWHERE…..I play fantasy baseball,and on blog-sites,they are there too !!….The team we all follow is doing great…in first place so far…but some posters still find fault in things….still angry about something.And if you mention to them why ?,they usually come unglued at the person asking….and then it usually shifts into politics !!…It’s their way of life….We just have to accept it….and maybe try our best to ignore it,cause if you don’t,a good chance it will make you an angry person too…..

        • esfotoguy April 11, 2013 at 1:01 pm #

          Angry? Have you watched MSNBC lately? Maddow, Sharpton,Hays,the lady w/ the cornrows, O’donnel, are they not angry? Anger is all they spew.It goes both ways when people have passion in what they believe. Stop w/ the name calling already.

          • Best news source April 11, 2013 at 3:00 pm #

            CNN is by far the best news source in America today.

          • Bemused April 11, 2013 at 4:48 pm #

            Falsely-equivalating MSNBC with the likes of Fox News, as annoyingly pompous as some of their commentators can be, is intellectually dishonest to the point of absurdity.

            Hint: One of them is a pseudo-news product wholly conceived and developed for the purpose of dispensing (far) right-leaning subterfuge to the millions upon millions of know-nothings, bigots, and bible-thumpers in this country…and the other is a news network. Essentially uber-capitalists selling primitive capitalism to its own victims, with a side of anti-abortion, and general “godliness.”

            To not see the difference between the two, means one is either ignorant, in denial, or stupid.

            Of course MSNBC does lean left. But as has often been said, and is now truer than at any time in modern history, the truth does also enjoy a liberal bias…

          • Bemused April 11, 2013 at 4:53 pm #

            CNN is news-lite, at best, and is massively guilty of false-equivalency. And they are starting to skew right (I’m talking to you Erin Burnett), little doubt due to the dramatic success of the Fox “News” business model.

          • Benett Kessler April 11, 2013 at 5:08 pm #

            Ditto. The most credible, although once a week, news source we have found is Fareed Zakaria on Sundays.
            It takes work to dig out good news sources.

          • Fox is a shill for neocons April 11, 2013 at 8:00 pm #

            Fox News’ Megyn Kelly when she sneers whenever talking about Obama or liberals… a real sweetheart she is.

          • Tourbillon April 12, 2013 at 8:32 am #

            Bemused: “intellectually dishonest to the point of absurdity…millions upon millions of know-nothings, bigots, and bible-thumpers in this country…selling primitive capitalism… ignorant, in denial, or stupid.”

            After that coolly reasoned argument sinks in, consider that “For Hate Mongers Only” and “Conservatism, a Mental Illness” state that conservatives are the ones full of anger and hate.

            You three should have lunch. I say “three” assuming you are not simply multiple personalities of the same troubled person. Suggested topic for discussion: what psychologists call “projection”. If in fact you are multiple personalities, suggest you not actually converse with each other in public but just kind of think about it quietly in your lonesome if clinically interesting little corner.

        • The truth hurts April 11, 2013 at 2:02 pm #

          Wayne Deja –

          Your observations of today’s neocon are sadly true. It seems that ever since a black guy became president, the frowns and utter unhappiness have been obvious (especially from the older Boomer crowd).
          Sadder still, is they have no idea how to pull themselves out of the hole they and their talk-radio gurus have put them so solidly in.
          There truly is nothing anyone can offer these sad souls.

          • Benett Kessler April 11, 2013 at 2:21 pm #

            Enough already.

          • out with the old - in with the new April 11, 2013 at 3:16 pm #

            used to be’s” don’t count anymore
            They just lay on the floor
            ‘Til we sweep them away

            – Neil Diamond

  4. Wayne Deja April 10, 2013 at 3:24 pm #

    John…Thing is,no one is trying to take anyone’s guns away….if you want to blow up a bunch of bottles,instead of using a high-capacity clip,use a bunch of stock clips….safer that way….and the same if someone invades us,like you stated was maybe going to happen back in the middle 1940’s…..And with the bill for harsher background checks…..good idea….if some criminal wants a gun,he’s going to get it….but they have to make it to where it’s harder for them to do it in any way possible..I mentioned once before about the “Dateline” episode a while back….where the producers hired an ex-felon,with Law Enforcement knowledge,to go into one of those gun shows and see what he could buy…and a half hour later,came back with more than one pistol,a rifle and a shotgun….I can’t understand why any citizen,gun owner or not,would not object to that being able to be done by someone that can’t legally even own a firearm…I ,myself own a .22 caliber rifle and a .40 caliber semi-automatic pistol…and when I made the purchase,it didn’t bother me one bit that there was a waiting period that I had to deal with before I could pick-up.

    • Nobody is taking away their guns April 11, 2013 at 5:41 am #

      When some extremist political groups run out of topics to set themselves apart as being the Americano Supremo, ie., no to gay marriage, no to birth control, no to taxing the rich, no to marijuana, … ad infinitum, they know they can always create the illusion that their guns are going to be taken away from them and the government is going to put them in prison. This seems to bond them together.
      They have a gigantic problem with common sense and are most assuredly borderline crazy.
      You know them by their advancing age, their constant frowns, and their angry disposition.
      Sadly, there is nothing we can do to assist them. They must come to the realization that they are the creators of the hell they are living in.

  5. John April 10, 2013 at 12:08 pm #

    I wanted to raise a point about gun laws and war.

    Someone mentioned earlier that the U.S. was ready to invade Japan before the bomb, and I’ve heard from other sources that we were afraid Japan would invade us. I believe that a german sub was even spotted off our west coast.

    If we ever were invaded, wouldn’t it be a good idea for our citizens to bear arms?

    • Machine guns - No! April 10, 2013 at 3:06 pm #

      Nobody wants to take away your arms, John.
      It’s the maniacs who watch too many Rambo films that insist on owning and dealing in machine guns that are making all the NRA people look crazy.

  6. Trouble April 10, 2013 at 6:04 am #

    Brave New World- Your comments are so off base it is ridiculous. The brave generation of the last hundred years was clearly the youth of what I call the Vietnam error. People stood up to what the believed in. They changed this country in a lot of special ways. Your generation has been screwed over by both parties and will continue to be, until people start to stand up for their beliefs agian. Gay marriage and gun control are not the issue this country needs to be focused on.

    • The change it had to come April 10, 2013 at 10:57 am #

      Trouble – Your extremist political philosophy and perhaps advancing years are showing.
      Every generation begets a more liberal and open-minded aura than the one before it (thank God).
      There appear to be two types of people in out divided country today:
      Those who cannot wait for obvious change and are not going to quit until change happens
      and …
      Those who remain stuck in the WWII era paranoid of anything new.

      As American business leader and forward-thinking Lee Iacocca once put it –
      “Lead, follow, or get the (expletive) out of the way!”

      Time to drift away angry old-timers. You’ve effed things up enough already.

      • Trouble April 10, 2013 at 8:46 pm #

        The change- you clearly don’t know me if you call me a extremist. I vote democrat 90 % of the time. But I am not afraid to say that I think I have a right bare arms and I don’t understand or agree with gay marriage. How about you?

        • All is impermanent April 11, 2013 at 10:42 am #

          Trouble –
          I respectfully give way to the future voters of America. For those under 30, it appears they do not view the word liberal as something demonic – as so many over-the-hill people in our society do. In fact, they overwhelmingly favor, voting for a black man for president, legalizing marijuana, abortion, are secure enough with their sexuality to give a thumbs up to same-sex relationships, and much, much more.
          Today’s youth understands that all is impermanent and live their lives that way.
          The older boomers can learn a lot from our youth rather than dictate how they were raised to them in a manner resembling the strict father family.

    • J-Frog April 10, 2013 at 11:06 am #

      True that trouble! I think the brave generation was during the depression era, especially being a Native that was a teen or twenties in that time. For example my Grandfather only had a 1st grade education level and no birth certificate, of course in that time natives were only 2/3’s of a citizen, but that didn’t stop him from becoming a universal heavy equipment operator that helped pave the roads of Senora pass, Tioga pass and some. .
      And yes being screwed by both party’s is not a understatement, for instance, this whole cutting of social security and medicare could be stopped and cuts be saved if only Republicans and Democrats would close the tax loophole of off shore tax havens for corporations, but of course republicans protect that and go after other areas while democrats don’t call them out because they don’t want to loose their funding either? WTF!
      Help push Wolf-PAC’s agenda to get money out of politics. They have the best plan!

      • Mark April 10, 2013 at 1:42 pm #

        “social security and medicare”

        If you want better SS and Medicare we need to demand Congress & the Senate get the same benifits as everyone else in the Country.

    • Rush Limbaugh Conservatism April 10, 2013 at 11:42 am #

      Trouble –

      Like the time when birth control pills were considered evil by republican conservatives, the moral politics of today’s far-right is surfacing its ugly head once again. While Conservatives’ follow the model of the “strict father” family and paranoid that evil is all around us and constantly tempting us, the downfall of today’s Rush Limbaugh conservatism is they haven’t figured out that you cannot legislate morality … for everyone.

      This is the same ugly process the nationalistic totalitarians of Nazi Germany thought they could pull off. Merely substitute Jews with illegals and you will understand the problem.

      • Conservatism: A Mental Illness April 10, 2013 at 3:34 pm #

        A few years ago I was standing on the deck of a beach house on the 4th of July and a person who had obviously drunk too much told me, “The secret of my life is that I always need someone to hate.”

        I was reminded of this exchange while watching the stupendously ruthless Republican National Convention. Is there anything that conservatives do not hate?

        Republicans hate community organizers, liberals (surprise!), Madonna, the “east coast elite,” the “angry left” media, trial lawyers, people who are too smart, people who are “cosmopolitan”—the list goes on into eternity.

        I am reminded of a research article that came out roughly 5 years ago on political conservatism and motivated social cognition (Jost, Glaser, Kruglanski & Sulloway, “Political Conservatism as Motivated Social Cognition,” Psychological Bulletin).In a nutshell, the article—by Stanford and UC Berkeley researchers—seems to suggest that conservatism is a mild form of insanity.

        We are talking about someone full of fear, with a poor sense of self, and a lack of mental dexterity. It isn’t a black and white world. According to the research, conservatives possess precisely the opposite:an intolerance of ambiguity and an inability to deal with complexity.Maybe that’s one reason why Obama seems so distasteful to them:he is a nuanced, multi-faceted thinker who can see things from several different perspectives simultaneously.And he isn’t preaching fear, either.

        • Tourbillon April 10, 2013 at 9:09 pm #

          Hint: if you are trying to persuade people not already chained in the dungeon of your little ideological echo chamber, it is advisable not to accuse said people of suffering from mental illness. Such transparent rubbish diminishes your credibility by revealing a small mind and an exceptionally crabbed soul. I advise trying to hide these shortcomings behind a cloak of good manners, which can be copycatted well enough for a blog so that people will not detect any insincerity.

        • familygal April 11, 2013 at 11:41 am #

          Republicans love lots of things….. like liberty, freedom of speech, the family, babies, life, respect for women, the ability to make something of yourself in this country, religious liberty, our country, the right to be able to live without government interference in every crevice of one’s life, less debt, the constitution, on and on.

          A study done on Republicans or conservatives by a liberal researcher is hardly worthy of attention since it would be looking for things to “hate” about republicans/ conservatives….oh brother.

          The other side is afraid of and hates the republicans….the argument about who “hates” and who “fears” and who is “mentally ill” can be applied to BOTH sides…..depending on which side of the fence you are looking over….. so please don’t get all high and mighty thinking that your liberal way is the “correct” way….who told you that? This country is made up of all kinds of people, get used to it!

        • erik simpson April 11, 2013 at 12:06 pm #

          Your constant lecturing about the definition of liberal seems to have been replaced by constant assertions of mental illness suffered by anyone whose opinion you don’t share. Your recent comment about hope that they would die off “the sooner the better” is repulsive. These expressions of poisonous hatred say more about you and your character that you probably wanted to reveal. As you have pointed out, it isn’t a black-and-white world. How about some of the live-and-let-live attitude you’ve previously recommended?

  7. esfotoguy April 9, 2013 at 4:47 pm #

    @Mark…being alone out in the middle of nowhere, I really dont feel like escalating the situation w/ a a cop that is armed. just sayin

    • Mark April 10, 2013 at 7:33 am #

      Wayne & esfotoguy – both of you have good points. I was going to add I won’t challange him if I was alone but If I wasn’t alone and I had a camera and phone you’d better bet I would.

      I’d also like to add calling 911 from a cell phone probably wouldn’t help as your phone call would go to the CHP. Probably better off calling Bishop P.D. on their listed number and hope like hell they have that line recorded.

      Dave McNeil did the right thing by writing Sac. Any good plumber knows craps flows down hill.

      Don’t be sheeple people!

  8. Wayne Deja April 9, 2013 at 2:59 pm #

    Mark…I’d be careful suggesting that to anyone…911 is meant for emergency situations.If you use it for anything else,such as what you are suggesting,there’s a good chance you’d get charged with abusing the 911 system….and yes,there IS such a charge.

  9. esfotoguy April 9, 2013 at 8:11 am #

    Ive asked him his name, he says hes not giving it because of the investigation. And he covers up his name on his shirt. The lawyers we have contacted have advised us of setting up multi hidden cameras and film him doing this. We are going to post it on liveleak for all to see. I was there yesterday shooting pics w/ the cameras set up but i guess his busybody wife was nursing a hangover.He never showed up. i dont know, maybe his boss had a lil chat w/ him.

    • Mark April 9, 2013 at 9:23 am #

      If an officer refuses to give his name or badge number I’d call 911 and stay on the phone until someone shows up willing to give their name.

    • Steve April 10, 2013 at 9:16 am #

      Where exactly is this place?

      • Mark April 10, 2013 at 10:55 am #

        Within a few minutes walk from here

        LAT 37°27’47.55″N

        LONG 118°36’0.30″W

  10. Trouble April 8, 2013 at 4:49 pm #

    Is there a reason that the officer in question has not been named?

  11. Comical April 8, 2013 at 12:13 pm #

    @salbaster I love the dunce chair comment!

    It gave me a great idea maybe this Sergeant and his wife should start working for MCSO this is their kind of tactics. Spying on people, overstepping their bounds, stopping people with no PC and harassing people just because they feel they can. There are two Sergeants on the MCSD that do these type of things for their miscreant leaders often….. yes there are people that know you do this LOL. No big secret. In fact you aren’t even good at it.

    • Neocons and surveillance April 8, 2013 at 2:47 pm #

      On the January 10 broadcast of his nationally syndicated radio show, Rush Limbaugh baselessly claimed that “Americans were not spied on without a warrant” through President Bush’s controversial electronic surveillance program. In fact, the program is controversial precisely because evidence exists that suggest Bush authorized the National Security Agency (NSA) to spy on people within the United States without obtaining warrants — an apparent violation of the 1978 Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA).

      The New York Times first reported on December 16 that, according to “[n]early a dozen current and former officials,” Bush “secretly authorized the National Security Agency to eavesdrop on Americans and others inside the United States to search for evidence of terrorist activity without the court-approved warrants ordinarily required for domestic spying.” Yet, FISA permits warrantless electronic surveillance only under the following circumstances: “if the Attorney General certifies in writing under oath that … there is no substantial likelihood that the surveillance will acquire the contents of any communication to which a United States person is a party.”

      • Tony Cumia April 9, 2013 at 8:04 am #

        And Eric Holder[Obama’s Attorney general] said its ok to kill Americans on American soil w/ drone strikes…w/ out a fair trial…whats your point?….oh i guess the harassment that this cop is doing is Bush’s fault?

        • Benett Kessler April 9, 2013 at 8:27 am #

          Holder did not say that. When pressed by Rand Paul, he and the President said that was not acceptable.
          Benett Kessler

          • Jeremiah's ego April 9, 2013 at 9:59 am #

            He did say that Benett, but it took the Rand Paul’s filibuster to catch the attention of the white house and general public. Before that the “signature strikes” and “personal strikes” within the administration were all fine and dandy when nobody knew about it!

          • Tony Cumia April 9, 2013 at 4:43 pm #

            No you are wrong…he did say it, until the was an outrage and he back tracked….but 1 American has already been killed over seas by a drone w/out a fair trial…Bushes fault Neocon?

          • Old Guy April 10, 2013 at 1:02 am #

            To Brave New World:

            MOLON LABE


          • Hard time accepting the Now April 10, 2013 at 11:07 am #

            Old Guy –

            “Molon labe” is a classical expression of defiance reportedly spoken by King Leonida in response to the Persian army’s demand that the Spartans surrender their weapons at the Battle of Thermopylae. It is an exemplary use of a laconic phrase.

            Sorry Old Guy. I think you might consider getting with the program or going gently into that Good Night. This is 2013, NOT 480 BC.
            What worked before is ancient history. Not unlike today’s far-right political philosophy.

            That’s life.

        • Wayne Deja April 9, 2013 at 9:52 am #

          This rant reminds me of what someone told me just before the election in 2012….This guy stated he would NEVER vote for President Obama because Obama “refuses” to salute the American flag…I am SO GLAD the American voters saw through all the bunk that was coming their way late last year….because if they didn’t,we’d now have a President that now admits he never really wanted to be President anyway…

          • Brave New World April 9, 2013 at 12:38 pm #

            A vast majority of American voters today under the age of 30, favor gun control, abortion, possession of small quantities of marijuana, gay marriage and believe the killing of civilians of Hiroshima and Baghdad was morally wrong.

            All you crusty old farts out there better understand there is a Brave New World being born and for the mega-conservative old-timers, the sooner you all die off – the better.

          • Poli-Sci 101 April 9, 2013 at 5:37 pm #

            You are right on, Wayne!

            It is true that Romney’s son went public about his father never wanting to be president in the first place.

            And with the GOP scratching its head trying desperately to distance itself from the Tea Party, machine gun nuts, and other extremists in their midst (if they ever want to win another election) perhaps they should have let Michele Bachmann win the hearts and minds of America. (wink)

            The more the far-right makes noise, the easier it will become for the Dems to win … again and again.

    • Desert Tortoise April 8, 2013 at 3:55 pm #

      If it’s no secret then name names. Otherwise it is all just heresay.

  12. Mark April 8, 2013 at 10:18 am #

    I wonder if the moron in charge up in Bridgeport has found time to talk with his sargent?

    • Desert Tortoise April 8, 2013 at 11:22 am #

      You know there is a process for filing a formal written complaint against any CHP employee including the lieutenant and the sargent in question. Then the complaint and the formal results of any investigation are documented on paper and are public knowledge. I think that would be a good place to start.

    • sean April 10, 2013 at 2:42 pm #

      Why is he a moron? You know him personally?

      • Mark April 10, 2013 at 4:37 pm #

        My “opinion” is entirely derived by the letter he sent to this site, and not discussing the issue with his officer prior to writing said letter.

  13. andrew April 8, 2013 at 8:59 am #

    Maybe they should relocate the CHP officer and his snitch wife, where this kind of behavior is tolerated. this is supposed to be the land of the Free.

    • sean April 10, 2013 at 2:40 pm #

      Sure – lets punish the CHP officer and his family based on a complaint letter from one person. SOmeone accused him of this heinous crime he committed by asking for ID So lets send him to do patrol work in Needles as punishment. That makes perfect sense. Why aren’t there 10 replies showing disgust about this suggested course of action?

      Everyone here gets on the cops for asking to see ID but when one comment comes up suggesting something stupid like transferring this Officer out of the area as punishment (with no Due Process or investigation of the true facts) the blogger peanut gallery goes quiet.

      So it’s not OK to ask for ID but it is OK to just punish a citizen who is employed as a cop if someone complains about him asking to see ID?

      Thank God we have people smarter than this running this country and serving it otherwise we would be on par with Iran where people are executed based on accusations and 20 minute trials.

      • Mark April 10, 2013 at 4:40 pm #

        (with no Due Process or investigation of the true facts)

        pretty much what his boss did by writing to Sierra Wave before speaking with the officer don’t you think.

        I guess it works both ways 😉

        • Benett Kessler April 10, 2013 at 5:41 pm #

          Point of clarification – the CHP Lt. spoke to me about the issue when I called him.

  14. John April 8, 2013 at 7:12 am #

    If you feel like you’re under surveilance now, wait until they start using drones.

    • Desert Tortoise April 8, 2013 at 11:19 am #

      Police agencies including the CHP have used fixed wing aircraft and helicopters with night vision equipment and high magnification cameras for decades. Where is the outcry. The US military has been flying vastly more powerful sensor platforms over the US for decades, aircraft like the U-2, RC-135 Rivet Joint, E-8, EC-130 Combat Talon, EP-3, E-3 AWACS, RC-12, E-2 Hawkeye and others and there have been no outrages committed by these against the civilian population. I think people have wild imaginations and come up with ideas not supported by any data. Fear based on a complete lack of knowledge.

      • Benett Kessler April 8, 2013 at 12:21 pm #

        Speaking of a complete lack of knowledge, how would you know whether there have been “outrages committed”
        since the military never reveals the nature of their activities nor the outcome.
        Benett Kessler

        • Mark April 8, 2013 at 1:44 pm #

          I have a well known outrage committed by the military against the history and people of Inyo County. It is the theft of mining equipment and artifacts by helicopter crews in the Inyo & White mountains.

          and it could have happened right before the eyes of this CHP and he wouldn’t even know what he was looking at.

        • Desert Tortoise April 8, 2013 at 3:54 pm #

          I serve in that military. We are citizens like you and snarky suspicions that military members are somehow out to get you based on absolutely no knowledge of how the military operates are resented. The military cannot engage in civilian law enforcement and frankly most military members want no part of it anyway. You talk as if the military is an enemy.

          • change of attitude April 8, 2013 at 5:42 pm #

            As a kid, I watched all the John Wayne WWII movies. Loved ’em all. Couldn’t get enough of ’em. Then I got older and the nuking of women and kids of Nagasaki and Hiroshima tarnished everything for me.

          • Reality Check April 9, 2013 at 7:35 am #

            change of attitude: You would be singing a different tune if you or a loved one were scheduled to be part of the invasion of Japan. The US Government had a half million Purple Heart Medals made just for the invasion.

            As bad as atomic weapons are, many lives were saved on both sides. The majority of Japan, men women and children would have fought to the death.

            War is hell and Japan started it. Never forget how they treated their “enemies”, Chinese (rape of Nanking), Koreans, etc.

            What you see today with China and Korea regarding Japan is because they have not fogotten what Japan did to them 70 years ago.

          • Jeremiah's ego April 9, 2013 at 9:54 am #

            But Reality Check if that is your stance then you shouldn’t be against any other country owning a nuclear warhead, You state because of the lives saved? why can’t other countries use that justification? Oh right because we are Americans we get to make up the rules as we go? We the people of the USA need to stop acting like we are so better then other humans and our lives are worth so much more!
            America needs to own the influence we have and the trends we set!
            No other Country has the opportunity to do good, on such a grand scale at such a fast rate, like the USA. But until we get rid of this plutocracy we call our government, it doesn’t matter if 90% of the people agree on something, those with money have the final say!
            Call a Rep. Tell them you support ending corporate person hood and want a representative democracy!

          • Nuking kids is bad karma April 9, 2013 at 12:02 pm #

            Reality Check –
            You and I live in different realities. So be it.
            My philosophy/moral compass dictates that there is never any excuse for the deliberate annihilation of innocent women and children whether it be the nuking of Japanese civilians or the shock-and-aweing of the women and children of Baghdad.
            There are many Americans today that believe that these travesties are the beginning of the end of America as we know it – politically, economically, and morally.
            Don’t take it personally, Reality, It’s a karma thing. But I think it wise to be careful what you are thinking about.

          • Reality Check April 9, 2013 at 9:28 pm #

            Jeremiah, I am not sure what your point is as I was talking about Japan in WW2.

            As far as other countries having nukes, many do. North Korea and Iran continue to say they want to use nuclear weapons to destroy their neighbors. I am not sure what your life experience is but I can tell you there are some very bad people in the world who will never have the same values you and I do. Some of these people run countries as they have throughout history. They only thing they understand is force and fear. It keeps them in check to a large extent.

            I do agree with you that the US does not have any greater moral authority than anyone else. Our country seems to be the one that is quick to go to war with countries that pose no real threat to us, and are in fact, third world nations.

        • Top brass and nuking of civiliians April 9, 2013 at 1:31 pm #

          Like all Americans, I was taught that the U.S. dropped nuclear bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki in order to end WWII and save both American and Japanese lives.

          But most of the top American military officials at the time said otherwise.

          General (and later president) Dwight Eisenhower – then Supreme Commander of all Allied Forces, and the officer who created most of America’s WWII military plans for Europe and Japan – said:

          “The Japanese were ready to surrender and it wasn’t necessary to hit them with that awful thing.”

          – Newsweek, 11/11/63, Ike on Ike

          “The lethal possibilities of atomic warfare in the future are frightening. My own feeling was that in being the first to use it, we had adopted an ethical standard common to the barbarians of the Dark Ages. I was not taught to make war in that fashion, and wars cannot be won by destroying women and children.” – Fleet Admiral William Daniel Leahy

          MacArthur’s views about the decision to drop the atomic bomb on Hiroshima and Nagasaki were starkly different from what the general public supposed …. When I asked General MacArthur about the decision to drop the bomb, I was surprised to learn he had not even been consulted. What, I asked, would his advice have been? He replied that he saw no military justification for the dropping of the bomb. The war might have ended weeks earlier, he said, if the United States had agreed, as it later did anyway, to the retention of the institution of the emperor.

          “In my opinion, the Japanese war was really won before we ever used the atom bomb. Thus, it wouldn’t have been necessary for us to disclose our nuclear position and stimulate the Russians to develop the same thing much more rapidly than they would have if we had not dropped the bomb.”
          – Under Secretary of the Navy Ralph Bird

          • Reality Check April 10, 2013 at 12:31 am #

            Iwo Jima and Okinawa.

            Says it all.

          • War is good for the economy? April 10, 2013 at 5:43 am #

            The nuking of civilians of Japan was the darkest moment in America’s history. Though its been almost 70 years since the atrocity, I believe it’s not too late for America to admit to the war crimes and drop the insanity of “We did it before – and we can do it again.”

            Who knows. Perhaps our tax dollars could be spent on education rather than the industrial military complex where the only people to profit from warfare are Lockheed Martin and Halliburton (Dick and Lynne Cheney were former CEOs of those defense contractors).

          • J-Frog April 10, 2013 at 8:33 am #

            “Jeremiah, I am not sure what your point is as I was talking about Japan in WW2.”
            It’s all good, I get that at times, certain things can carry me away from making a decisive point.
            But yes I understand other country’s have nukes, why should USA be the only one to be able to have one? Maybe other countries would like to have the playing field as even as possible so the USA can’t just bully there way around. But yes it is tough to see the way other countries keep their citizens down and ours has never been immune to that.

          • No civilians died at Iwo Jima April 10, 2013 at 11:15 am #

            Reality Check –
            I don’t recall any reality of Japanese women and children being exterminated at Iwo Jima or Okinawa.

            FYI –

            There has been great difficulty in estimating the total casualties in the Japanese cities as a result of the atomic bombing. The extensive destruction of civil installations (hospitals, fire and police department, and government agencies) the state of utter confusion immediately following the explosion, as well as the uncertainty regarding the actual population before the bombing, contribute to the difficulty of making estimates of casualties. The Japanese periodic censuses are not complete. Finally, the great fires that raged in each city totally consumed many bodies.

            The number of total casualties has been estimated at various times since the bombings with wide discrepancies. The Manhattan Engineer District’s best available figures are:

            TABLE A: Estimates of Casualties



            Pre-raid population









            Total Casualties



          • Thumbs down to WWII top brass April 10, 2013 at 12:17 pm #

            I see there are some “thumbs-down” to the info gathered from Wikipedia regarding how the military top brass viewed the nuking of civilians of Nagasaki and Hiroshima.

            Can’t blame them for realizing how we’ve been duped by the politician’s propaganda machine that told us as children that the nuking of civilians was entirely necessary to stop the war.

            Either that or those who cannot come to grips with reality don’t like what Eisenhower, Leahy, Bird and MacArthur.

  15. Desert Tortoise April 7, 2013 at 9:59 pm #

    Talk and a letter are cheap. If people are genuinely upset, the only way to effect change is to pack a couple of public meetings of the local Board of Supervisors and flood the local state legislators offices with e-mails and phone calls. That gets attention. Then when the legislators visit and have a town hall or other such meeting, pack it with people upset with this CHP officer. That really gets people’s attention. Or refuse to cooperate with the officer and be prepared lawyer up and hang tough for a years long legal battle when he cuffs you and stuffs you.

  16. salblaster April 7, 2013 at 9:41 pm #

    thats taking whining to a whole new level, maybe if his boss stuck him in the dunce chair for a week it might sooth your ruffled feathers, and unless you were an active employee with the forrest service in uniform you should’nt expect him to cut you some slack. so he checked and recorded your id. whats the big deal, you checked out ok, you were not up to no good and he left, what it take about 5 minutes. whats next you gonna file a lawsuit.

    • Legal Eagle April 8, 2013 at 4:46 pm #

      So what exactly what was the reasonable suspicion for stopping and detaining these people? Looking at a known tourist attraction in broad daylight?

      What probable cause did the CHP Sergeant have to demand identification in a public place, record their information, where no crime is taking place?

      When you give up your constitutional rights without taking action, they will take more in the future.

      Good on Mr. McNeil to take it to a higher level when the Lieutenant treated him like an ignorant peasant who he thought would go away.

      • sean April 10, 2013 at 2:24 pm #

        Where are you getting that there was a detention or that the people were stopped and detained?

        The complaint letter said the Officer “asked” to see ID. Not demanded ID. That is the difference between a contact and a detention. Did the Officer turn on the red lights on this patrol car? Was he blocking your exit from the area. DId he restrict your movement or order you to sit down? Did he pat you down for weapons? Did he say show me ID or I will arrest you for something?

        From your description of the event it sounds like he did not detain you. Cops can go anywhere there department allows them to go and they can ask anyone questions and even ask to see your ID. CHP are California Peace Officers which means their jurisdiction is THE ENTIRE SATE OF CALIFORNIA. Not just the highways. They can arrest for any CA law anywhere in CA and they can also investigate any CA law violation anywhere in CA.

        You will know the difference when they are asking for ID and then you are detained and they are giving you orders. If you are being given orders you are generally being detained.

        Learn the law before you start trying to tell all the cops what they did right and wrong. There is nothing wrong with complaining about the contact or expressing your opinion about it but at least try to have some understanding of what the laws actually state.

        The argument or cry of “You are violating my rights!” seems to come from people who know the least about civil right, the Constitution, or how their government works.

        • J-Frog April 11, 2013 at 10:48 am #

          The argument or cry of “You are violating my rights!” seems to come from people who know the least about civil right, the Constitution, or how their government works.
          Well sean if you knew how your government worked I don’t understand how you can sit there and continue to support the establishment that makes us all out to be sheep?
          Yes the situation may be working for you, but step outside your box (if you can) for a little bit and look at the bigger picture! rather then let yourself live the content life that the establishment wants you to live, and do not ask questions why.
          We live in a time where whistle blowers get punished rather then the ones doing the initial crime!

    • Tourbillon April 9, 2013 at 7:51 am #

      It is not “taking whining to a whole new level” to expect to be treated like an American citizen, not a European subject. “Show me your papers” is not supposed to be the norm here. When that kind of unwarranted intrusion without probable cause becomes acceptable, THAT is the big deal, whether it “takes about 5 minutes” or not. And you betcha Sally baby, if it were me I’d be filing a lawsuit in a New York minute. Others who like wasting their time can file all the normal complaints through the normal channels they want, and be rewarded with all the normal worthless whitewash and platitudes. Sometimes there is no substitute for the 2×4 of a court judgment to get the mule’s attention.

      • sean April 10, 2013 at 2:29 pm #

        And what exactly are you going to sue the CHP for? You have to show damages for a lawsuit to proceed. Were these people emotionally traumatized and can’t sleep at night? Were they beaten? Were they handcuffed and left to melt in the sun for 2 hours?

        Did the Officer say “Show me your papers”? I don’t think so.

        Go see if you can get an attorney to take this case. You will be laughed out of their office or they will fleece you for $5,000 and then tell you there is no case and laugh you out of their office.

        • Mark April 10, 2013 at 4:42 pm #

          I’d rather just here the issue has been addressed and the officer is back doing the job he is paid to do and is no longer being dispatched by his wife.

        • J-Frog April 11, 2013 at 10:36 am #

          just own the fact Officers don’t always make the best judgement and it is the action of other officers coming to the rescue of another that helps divert the officer in question from owning his short comings.
          “One of the great failures of critical thought, is the assumption of the authority around a given data set, people might think, well this person is considered a expert in a given field, due to the standards set forth by the culture, so therefore I can trust blindly anything they say without critical evaluation. A rather ominous perspective and I think most would agree large number of atrocities historically can be found sourced to this blind dedication to the statements of supposed authority!” -Peter Joseph-

  17. Get It Right !!!!! April 7, 2013 at 9:36 pm #

    It is a CHP Sergeant not an Officer, please differentiate in future postings.

  18. ferdinand lopez April 7, 2013 at 5:53 pm #

    nobody likes to be stopped by authorities while theyre enjoying the great outdoors……but,it happens,and it has to happen.i get stopped by fish and game to check my fishing license,the lift crew checks my pass everytime i get onto a lift , bartenders used to check my i.d.,etc… its just life,quit whining

    • Wayne Deja April 8, 2013 at 7:54 am #

      I think what bothers people about this is it seems to be the CHP officers wife calling the shots….alerting her CHP husband of someone in the area to check on.Now if it were a BLM officer coming by to see if there might be a situation to check on,or maybe tell visitors to keep their eyes open for vandalisim,that would be a whole different thing,and accepted by most….much like DFG checking on fishing licenses..but the taking photos of vehicle license numbers and the (alleged) harrassment is what’s rubbing people the wrong way….

  19. enoughalready April 7, 2013 at 5:35 pm #

    Way to go David!!! Everybody who has been hassled out there by him and his wife should follow suit. The thought that the CHP officer is investigating the petroglyph theft holds has much water has him investigating the where-abouts of Jimmy Hoffa. Both cases have equel chances of being solved by this guy.
    By now it is a known fact that that area is sacred ground to the native people and needs to protected and respected. That being said it is not the job of a private vigilante couple with one CHP badge to violate the rights and freedoms of other citizens. Especially on the dime of all the tax payers in the state. The officer and his supervisor should be held accountable for their actions and inactions.

  20. esfotoguy April 7, 2013 at 4:47 pm #

    Here we go again……this is harassment 100% I’m a photographer and this has happened to me more than a few a few times….Im at the point where I completely ignore them[him and the BLM officer] and dont respond. I sudgest you do the same. They can do nothing to you if you ignore them.Use your Iphone and film him.There is no probable cause. It seams like this cop doesn’t want to do his job. Its much to easy for his busy body wife and him to harass the many people that frequent this area than to ticket the folks going 80-90mph down Sherwin Grade…..one more thing, I’m going to start photographing him. Public land…I can do that.;-]

    • Mark April 8, 2013 at 10:17 am #

      photograph the cop, photograph his ol’ lady, and photograph his home. Then post them to the web.


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