During the first public comment period at the recent Bishop City Council meeting, the pastor affiliated with the Bishop Church on Main spoke out on the Eastern Sierra Pride Festival scheduled for June 4 and 5 at the TriCounty Fairgrounds. He expressed the local ministerial organization’s concerns that “a healthy community won’t come from the Pride event” and focused on what he termed “over-sexualization” of the event. A second minister added “we’re not against people but we don’t celebrate what we feel is broken-ness.”
Councilmember Stephen Muchovej waited until the final agenda item,” Councilmember Reports”, to address the comments. “I heard the word ‘compassion’,” he said. He went on to ask
Councilmembers Karen Kong and Jose Garcia if they could be fired from their jobs because they were a woman or Hispanic, respectively. “Do you realize that in 29 states you can be fired for being gay. Pride Monty didn’t start as a celebration,” he said, noting the origins in New York in 1969 when the community “was tired of drag queens being beat-up by the NYPD.”
“There’s no evidence of sexual deviance” in exhaustive reports, he continued, “while churches
are hiding child molesters in their own flocks. These lies are hurtful. Are these the values you
want us to represent?”
The other Councilmembers then spoke up in support of Muchovej; during the earlier
comments, their discomfort was obvious. Chair Karen Schwartz suggested eliminating the
Invocation from future agendas.
One final observation: both during this City Council meeting and the May 17 th Inyo County
Board of Supervisors’ Pride Month Proclamation discussion, the only side of the debate that
mentioned sexuality were those against the proclamation. Those in support simply spoke of
love.
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I am just wondering if someone can get me the pastor’s number? I want to ask him out on a date so I can show him what he has been missing! Love baby, love!
To Eastside Local, pleased to meet you! You definitely are a much better writer than I will ever be. Couldn’t agree with you more. Well, time to go watch the clouds float by.. have a nice day.
So glad to see our big back yard taking steps to be a welcoming and inclusive place! Very much looking forward to the festival and delighted that our county recognized June as Pride Month. The festival will be fun… and we’ll attended! Tickets are going fast. #loveislove #choosekindness #bornthisway
And what a fantastic time it was! So much joy and love! The happiness that enveloped everyone there will help make our valley a n even more beautiful place. ?
As a member of the LGBT community and long, long time resident of the Eastside, I’m predicting this will be a flop, attended by mostly vitue signalling “straight allies” with few local LGBT attending. Most people locally don’t even remember the many times this has been tried before and failed, from the LGBT group of “Rainbow Falls” (I was a member) to the 3 people who stood on Main Street to wave “Pride Flags” on June 26th sporadically throughout the past 30 years.
I moved here 30 years ago, having lived in LA, SF, SD, ATL, and NYC to leave that behind and be myself- a GAY, conservative, Christian, redneck.
I’ve never felt the need to announce my sexuality to the world, just as I don’t expect straight people to announce theirs, it’s utterly irrelevant; and the local community has NEVER discriminated against me or treated me differently because of sexuality.
While I give this group props for organizing this event, I know I won’t be in attendance along with a number of local LGBT people who I know personally. We live locally because we don’t want the trappings of urban life in our small hometown. This event is being hoisted upon our community by recent transplants to the OV as evident from the event’s page- only 2 out 9 of the Board members were born here, 2 don’t even live locally, and 4 have lived locally for less than 4 years.
Good luck Eastern Sierra pride, but I’m out.
Dear Eastside Local,
I am so sorry that you are not comfortable attending! I have to say that you are mistaken about the attendance. The meetups that we have been having are fun and well attended. There are many folks coming from out of town too, to join in the fun!
As far as folks being from elsewhere, we have moved here because we love it, and have organized to bring our specific talents together to bring a celebratory event to our area.
An event for everyone, from all walks of life, to celebrate our diversity. We love it here too much to not contribute all that we can to our community!
Regardless of your beliefs or desires, happy Pride Month, and know that Eastern Sierra Pride is here for you if you need anything.
Eastside Local, I’m glad you wrote. Thank you. I’ve known a few gay, conservative, christian, rednecks who’s families have been here for generations and like you, lived quietly. Many were of the older generations and unfortunately, unable to come out or sometimes even accept that part of themselves.
Festivities and celebrations are great, but not for everyone. Heck, how many of us locals avoid Mule Days like the plague?
I do think it’s important, especially for young people and adolescents, to know there are others like them and that there is a community where they can find support. The dismay at reading and seeing such vitriol and hate from some of these christian groups and leaders, my heart goes out to the children and grandchildren of those members who might realize they are not straight, no matter what the church says. Kids that identify as redneck, conservative and christian and also LGBTQ+, but would be more likely to go to a rodeo or truck-pull, or off to hunt or fish than attend a Pride Festival. I hope those kids know there are others like them. Others that made it to adulthood and found happiness and acceptance with the entirety of who they are. Others that can help them find a church with a loving relationship with God and Christ rather than a hateful one. I hope those kids know there is a community for them.
And for all those that have worked to bring the Pride Festival to Bishop and those looking forward to celebrating THANK YOU!!
Hey – here’s an idea. If the church and certain members of the comunity don’t like the idea of a pride event, the solution is simple: don’t go. We’re a free country. You don’t get to impose your views on the way that everyone else lives their lives.
Where have you been the last two years? Have you already forgotten when churches and businesses were shut down and deemed non essential? How about the masses who imposed their views on the way everyone else wanted to live their lives?
Not an apples to apples comparison.
seriously ? You’re comparing science with religion ? that’s hilarious.
Thanks for the irrelevant analogy.
Hate, prejudice, racism and judgment is of those who fear to go beyond narrow minded beliefs that not all are created the same. Humankind individually creates its own systems, with limited choices. We have no choice as to what sex, sexual preference, race, color or anything else when we take that first breath from the womb of our mothers, then we are structured and conformed into family beliefs and society created structures of rules, regulations, beliefs etc. over the centuries of time. I have LGBT friends that finally were able to not have to hide who and what their feelings and preferences were and are, it took many years. Some are in their 50s, 60s and older that grew up here hiding their feelings and who they are. I have thought and think about what it was like all those years for my teen grandchild and as well my friends I grew up with, the struggle and the fear of no acceptance, ridicule, hate, pre-assumed judgment etc….especially growing up here. Non of them are abusive, sexual deviants or child abusers, predators, drug dealers, vandals etc., like the many abusers, sexual deviants or child abusers, predators, drug dealers, vandals etc., around here still working and walking among our children and our communities. So those of you who think you are better than others have no sin and have not one drop of what “you think” your sin is, I suggest you look in that mirror with true courage and honesty because surely you will find something you consider sinful in your lifetime. Life is already a challenge because of some of humankind’s ridiculous structured controls and nonsense destructive behaviors, so why make it harder in our communities. Do not fear of who or what you do not know or understand.
Did anyone pull out that lie that there’s no Military Appreciation Month? It’s May. Right now. It’s also why I’m currently flying a POW/MIA flag. Which I will switch to a Pride flag on June 1st.
Pride is more necessary than ever, as states pass laws to prevent even mentioning the existence of gay people. These ministers can come whine when teachers are fined for mentioning that historical figures were Christian and when their dogma isn’t being used to restrict women’s health care, regardless of that woman’s religious views. Rarely has the oppressor gone through so many mental gymnastics and cognitive dissonance to insist that they are the oppressed as American “Christians”.
Note there is not a single verse of Jesus telling his disciples to join the Roman Senate and mandate their dogma for everyone. No calls to politicize his beliefs. No calls to legislate “To one who strikes you on the cheek, offer the other also, and from one who takes away your cloak do not withhold your tunic either. Give to everyone who begs from you, and from one who takes away your goods do not demand them back.” But these self-identified Christians would rather speak out to oppress others than deal with the beams in their own eyes.
Why have a second day of the event open to all ages. Is this a recruiting event?
Tell you what, sweetheart, I’m going to take my children to go support my friends, and I’ll let you know.
I hope you all practice your freedom to not participate by staying as far away as possible.
Ironically the only local folks who have come to my doorstep to literally recruit me are the JW. Also straight women have tried to recruit me but 36 and still gay… you’re safe Darlene. We won’t turn you gay 😉
The only orgs trying to recruit ’em young in Inyo are the local churches.
I want to thank all of you for your thoughtful views. I have never experienced such an outpouring of “love” from the pride community. I now understand that churches are bad and those asking questions are certainly not tolerated. To the nine people responding to my comment, I know you understand where I was coming from. State Farm, Disney, to name a few. To the rest of the pride community, get over yourselves.
Wow. You show up being snide about an all ages event and asking if it’s recruitment, and then get your nose bent out of shape when everyone points out how hypocritical that is. This is why young people are abandoning your churches.
It is literally the exact reason I left my church.
Your initial comment was insulting and sarcastic and you’re complaining that the replies were met with the same?
now now, that’s not fair. for example, the catholic church doesn’t “recruit” – the preferred term is “sacraments of initiation” – entirely different. mystical and invisible. no brainwashing involved. most 2nd graders girls have no idea why they’re dressed up like a bride, but what the hell, seems like fun.
How about because all children need a community, not just the Christian.
So I can take my non gay daughter to support them?
That would absolutely be wonderful, teach children tolerance and acceptance. We don’t have to all be the same to support one another. Community.
No, teach children the truth.
Did someone invite Kevin Spacey?
Thank you Bishop City Council for your support of the LGBTQ community. As most of us know, LGBTQ is not a choice you are born that way!
No, they are NOT born that way! That is the lie of the world. There is no “gay” gene! Their way of life is their choice. If you know someone who is a Christian, and follows God’s law, then of course they are against homosexuality. God is against their choice of living the homosexual lifestyle.
How do you explain gay christians ? Christians who “choose” (according to you) to be gay ? What is your defining “moment” of christianity ? How does one determine who is “more christian” than another ?
By being the most judgements!
I don’t explain “gay” Christians. True Christians follow God’s law and Word.
God’s Word says, homosexuality is a sin. Is there a “gay” gene?
The bottom line is that your religious belief doesn’t determine how everybody else lives their lives.
I never said it did.
You didn’t have to.
“God’s Word” didn’t mention homosexuality until the early 20th century. Translations have agendas.
Try reading an antique Bible!
To you pastors and church leaders…. your hypocrisy is shining through here. If Jesus were here, he would extend a loving arm to ALL. I hope all of your congregations see that you don’t really promote love- just judgement and hate.
No hate like Christian love
Christians can’t go against what the Bible says, and that is truth, no hate.
It just cracks me up, that you expect pastors, and church leaders, to go against the Bible. If you really knew the Lord, you would know He does truly love everyone, but would never justify homosexuality. There is no hate. Just the truth.
JOlie, organized religion has promoted more hate and violence than is imaginable. If you choose to believe a fictional book written by men, you’re part of the problem. LOVE is what it’s about. No judging, JUST LOVE. What is your fear?
Love is what Jesus is promoting in the Bible. If it is fictional, why can’t it be proven wrong? No fear, because I have the love of God. I show any fear my faith. My relationship isn’t religion, but a true meaningful relationship with Christ.
Moreover, why can’t it be proven right?
p.s… not even the word “homosexual” in the Bible. No such word even existed then. We will agree to disagree and Peace to you..
The Bible was written by men, inspired through the Holy Spirit. Religion was created by men.
#1 Councilmember Stephen Muchovej is doing what many of the left do – projecting. As in, he’s the one who’s “lying” because it’s completely false to say in 29 states you can be fired for being gay. This is the type of “disinformation” that “lacks context” that the left professes to hate. Specifically, the equal protection clause of the U.S. constitution prevents this sort of discrimination, and Federal courts have repeatedly affirmed this principle. What this agent of disinformation likely means is that for certain private institutions (churches), they do not have to associate with people they believe to be living in sin and thus conflicting with their values. But that’s not the same as being fired for being gay, as in nearly all situations the gay person has VOLUNTARILY signed something in their employment agreement consenting to certain patterns of behavior. So what this really is, is Councilmember Stephen Muchovej engaging in religious bigotry and elevating certain constitutional rights over others because one is higher on his political priority list. Viewed through this lens, Councilmember Stephen Muchovej should clearly be ignored as a partisan agent of disinformation.
#2 Councilmember Stephen Muchovej engaged in further disinformation lacking context where he states that “There’s no evidence of sexual deviance”, when as a pure matter of fact, a sexual minority engaging in sex acts that the vast majority of the population does not engage in is, by definition, “deviance”. Maybe he does not like the term, but one cannot deny reality – a practice that deviates from the norm is in fact “deviance”.
#3 Councilmember Stephen Muchovej again: “…while churches
are hiding child molesters in their own flocks…are these the values you
want us to represent?” Religious bigotry on display again. And a complete non-sequitur. He’s basically saying, “sit down, shut up, you don’t get a right to speak because you’re not perfect either (even though I’m not specifically accusing you personally of any wrongdoing)”. What a political hack. And curiously, he uses the same sort of ad hominem attacks, false logic, and shut-down tactics employed against the gay community themselves for generations. What a leader.
#4 “Chair Karen Schwartz suggested eliminating the Invocation from future agendas.” Again, retribution for the sincerely-held beliefs of others. Beliefs, mind you, that the vast majority of humans throughout all of history have held. But now you’re supposed to sit down and shut up, or face repercussions. But with this context – that the vast majority of humans throughout all of history have subscribed to the same beliefs as the pastor – it becomes clear that Schwartz is the revolutionary trying to gain acceptance, and she’s gaslighting everyone else in the process into believing they’re the ones with the problem.
#5 The author if this article has clearly chosen her own side based on the last paragraph. “Simply spoke of love”. Much like Justice Kennedy’s non-legal opinion in the Obergefell case legalizing gay marriage, this is a mere commentary on what subjectively constitutes “love” in the mind of the author, and once such a conclusion is reached, one has the moral high ground because after all, who can argue with love? Please, like we’re a bunch of mouth breathers who cannot discern what you’re really talking about. Again, misdirection lacking truck context. Mere virtue signaling.
It actually does seem pretty relevant to call out the hypocrisy of the church to condemn “sexually deviancy” when there is rampant, documented sexual abuse of children in the Catholic and now Southern Baptist Church. Like, tend to your own house with all your indignation.
I think another way of phrasing what Muchovej said is: “Let he that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone.”
The bigotry, hatred and lies that appear in the comment section of every article about Eastern Sierra Pride is exactly why Eastern Sierra Pride needs to exist.
Also, you have two options: Either no invocations, or invocations from everyone, including atheists, satanists, indigenous faith leaders, etc.
You spent a lot of time on your response. It’s clear that you are an intelligent person- yet your “truths” are so skewed. Not impressed- even with your big words. Sorry, but I see your prejudice here. Namaste
Man you guys all basically proved my point. Non-substantive ad hominem attacks. Besides that, there were really two actual points raised, one proving my point and the other totally irrelevant.
As far as invocations for everyone or invocations for no one goes, that is completely beside the point. The point was that the issue of no invocations was raised as retribution. Completely separate.
As to the first comment above, it basically proves my point. So if someone on the other side of the country who professes to be a Christian hides some kind of sex abuse, I’m not allowed to have a traditional Christian position on a completely unrelated subject? Flawless logic.
What do you mean “if”? Have you not met the Southern Baptist Convention or the Catholic Church? Or countless other smaller denominations that “keep it in house”?
On top of which, how can we tell if you’re one of these “actual” Christians you claim to be vs. someone you just called out as merely professing Christianity? Luckily, the Bible gives some guidance.
1 Kings 18 says that, when challenged about the existence of their god, true believes can prove their devotion by praying a fire into existence. And mock anyone as having a false god if they can’t do the same.
Matthew 14 says believers can walk on water.
Matthew 10 says followers of Christ can raise the dead.
You want to be taken seriously as a True(tm) Christian and not just someone cherry-picking verses to excuse your bigotry? Walk the walk. Pray that bonfire into existence.
Of course, Sally, even if you do all that, you’ll still have to contend with 1 Timothy 2, which basically tells you to be silent and let the menfolk talk.
All of which together really make it seem like you’re not really a “traditional” Christian, but someone using Christianity for clout.
“…….be silent and let the menfolk talk.”
wow.
and no.
I didn’t write it and I definitely don’t believe it. But if someone is going to use the Bible to rationalize their anti-LGBTQ bigotry, they should probably also explain why the Bible’s misogynistic bigotry doesn’t also apply. Or are they just “salad bar Christians”, picking and choosing verses customized to their own preferred bigotries?
If you truly knew the Bible, and what it says, you would know your comment has no truth in it whatsoever!
Again, no hate like Christian love.
Again, the truth hurts.
Au contraire, the truth doesn’t hurt at all.
You’re really trying hard here “Sally”, but it’s not working… No need to get so worked up. This is about love and acceptance. No need to extrapolate beyond that. Peace.
Sally, If you’re now going to gripe that not Christian is perfect, perhaps you could then stay in your own freaking lane until you fix the many many problems there instead of shoving yourself into hatred against communities that don’t concern you.
No one here is saying you aren’t flawed. Just that we’d like you to take your flaws elsewhere instead of spewing hatred in the name of Jesus.
Frankly, as is, your witness is kind of trash.
So she isn’t allowed to give her opinion because it ticks you off?
Oh she’s allowed, just as we are allowed to debate her. Free country here.
Hi Sally—
Allow me to address some of the projections and misinformation here. There are 29 states in the US that do not have laws prohibiting discrimination based on sexual orientation. There is also no federal law at this time that prevents it as well. What we have is a patchwork of state laws and judicial interpretations of certain federal acts (namely the Civil Rights Act of 1964). This produces a lot of ambiguity, as some courts may decide discrimination is prohibited under that act, while others can decide the complete opposite (as happened in 2017 in decisions by the 7th and 11th Circuit Court of Appeals). In 2020, the Supreme Court ruled that sexual orientation is protected under the 1964 Civil Rights Act, but that was not a unanimous decision and we all know that unless codified specifically in legislation, one should not rest on a decision by the Supreme Court as the end-all-be-all on the matter. So just to clarify a few points: Federal anti-gay discrimination, as viewed by the Supreme and Federal courts, is NOT protected by the U.S. Constitution — it is protected by the Civil Rights Act. And were that act to be repealed, then you’re left with protections at the state level, where 29 of them have passed no such protections.
As to your second point, I believe this falls under the category of “missed translation between meeting and print”. My point during the meeting is that there is no evidence of an excess of sexual molestation of children by homosexuals. And this is true: the department of justice has looked into this, the national institute of health has looked into. And there is no evidence to support those claims. Absolutely none. At no point did I say that the clergymembers present were child molesters — I tend not make such gross generalizations of groups. We can agree to disagree on whether pointing out about systemic child abuse by clergymembers is a non-sequitur — personally, I think that when clergymembers are attacking a group with such claims, it is entirely appropriate to highlight the disconnect with reality there. And I’m pretty sure John would agree me as well (John 8:7).
Thank you for giving me a chance to elaborate on this reporting. Have a wonderful mule days!
No Stephen, you’re misrepresenting the law even though I specifically cited it. You said “there is no federal law at this time that prevents” discrimination. This is facially false. As I mentioned, the equal protection clause of the US Constitution protects it. You’re response is apparently that it’s not the US Constitution that courts have considered on this issue after all, but that it’s the Civil Rights Act and varying judicial interpretations of it. But as I mentioned, the Obergefell Supreme Court decision directly addressed discrimination against gays in the context of marriage, and did so in relation to the 14th amendment rather than the civil rights act. So not directly on point for employment contexts, but relevant nonetheless since (1) it proves your over-generalization as demonstrably false, and (2) most anti-discrimination laws (including the 14th amendment itself) do not cabin their anti-discrimination principles to only one setting and I doubt whatever appellate decisions you reference did so as well. So not only is it false to say there is no Federal codification of such issues (in fact, a Constitutional amendment is superior to the US Code), but the Supreme Court has in fact directly addressed this issue.
So when you also say there are 29 states that do not have laws prohibiting sex discrimination, that’s largely irrelevant owing to the Supremacy Clause. If you did an empirical study, there’s probably plenty of states that don’t have other types of laws protecting what Federal laws already protect. Because it’s superfluous and unnecessary and, in fact, sort of out of their jurisdiction and control given the Supremacy Clause. And if Supreme Court decisions, Federal laws, and the U.S. Constitution itself are all on such shaky ground and subject to repeal based on the whims of certain people, what makes you think state laws would be exempt from the same problem? Wasn’t that sort of the point of Obergefell anyway? There was a CA state law prohibiting gay marriage. The Supreme Court overruled it, guaranteeing the right as not subject to the whims of a subset of people (for better or worse) and therefore whatever state statutes they enact, and instead was actually guaranteed by something that is supreme to that state’s own laws. Seems like state laws are the ones with far less force then, and far less guarantees.
“So just to clarify a few points: Federal anti-gay discrimination, as viewed by the Supreme and Federal courts, is NOT protected by the U.S. Constitution — it is protected by the Civil Rights Act. And were that act to be repealed, then you’re left with protections at the state level, where 29 of them have passed no such protections.”
Again, that is provably false based on what I said above. Just go ahead and read the Obergefell decision. Here’s the link, and the verbatim holding from the syllabus:
https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/14pdf/14-556_3204.pdf
“Held: The Fourteenth Amendment requires a State to license a marriage between two people of the same sex and to recognize a marriage between two people of the same sex when their marriage was lawfully licensed and performed out-of-State.”
Also, do you honestly think the civil rights act will be repealed? Like, you think that’s genuinely a winning argument for any political denomination here in the US? That’s pure, unrealistic fear-mongering to make a political point, Stephen. That’s all that is. Shameful you would try to repackage that into contributing to some semblance of a rational argument.
As to your second point, I’m not surprised that something was lost in translation. But what you’re still doing is trying to hold a specific individual accountable for the malfeasance of a broader group of people who may or may not be related to the individual at hand. That is plainly discrimination. By definition. Imputing the perceived shortcomings of a group of people onto an individual without cause. Again you’re repackaging. But here, you’re repackaging discrimination into something appearing far less harmless, and doing so to make a political point against your perceived political adversaries. That is reprehensible from an elected official.
Oh Dear Sally. Your diatribes, as you say, are non sequitur. You’ve gone waaay off of the original article here. Not to say that you shouldn’t comment on the council’s comments, but the long speeches detract from the Eastern Sierra Pride!! Rest now..
Sally, would you rather be right? Or would you rather be happy?
It’s unfortunate that so many people believe they are synonymous.
Sally, it seems like you’re conflating two issues: The Obergefell decision deals entirely with marriage, not with employment-based discrimination (which is the topic I brought up to discuss). The Supreme court decision relating to employment-based discrimination is the Bostock v Clayton County decision from 2020. (https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/19pdf/17-1618_hfci.pdf). As you can see, the cornerstone of that decision is not the equal protection clause of the Constitution, but actually the Civil Rights Act of 1964.
I’m glad you think that employment-based discrimination should be enshrined in the Constitution, but the reality is that right now it is not. And that is actually one of the main goals of pride movement in the US: to make sure your assumption about Constitutional protections is actually enshrined in the Constitution. So I hope you will join us in pursuing a more just Union that is fair to all its residents and does not rely on the whim of whomever is sitting on the Supreme Court at any given time.
Know that we welcome you in this effort, for you can rest assured that when it comes to Sally Field(s), noone can deny the fact that we like you. 😉 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rl_NpdAy3WY)
I’d also like to leave you with one more thought since multiple people have taken to citing the Bible against actual Christians.
No Christian is perfect. We all sin. All Christians know this. It’s why we need Christ in the first place.
But given that, the insinuation with the repeated citations to John 8:7 appears to be that if you’ve committed a sin yourself, you’re not allowed to speak on morality on any other issue. By that logic then, no one is allowed to speak up on anything they feel as wrong, because after all none of us are perfect. Again, flawless logic.
No Stephen, I’m not conflating issues. As I said in my initial post, there is a constitutional issue at play. The Civil Rights act is one thing, but there’s the conflicting constitutional fact that others have the right to free exercise of their own religion, and also freedom of association. And I freely admitted Obergefell was not directly on point, I was merely defeating your over-generalization when you responded. The reason to do that was to undermine the hyperbole with which you spoke to impassion the other side.
I don’t “think discrimination should be enshrined in the constitution”. That’s just a simpleton’s distillation of a much more complex issue. Like I initially said, there are conflicting rights at play. It’s not that simple. It’s a gray area. You’re trying to bully me in black and white. And again you’re over-generalizing to enflame passions. The types of approaches you employ are, in a nutshell, part of why we’re so divided. You haven’t even seemed to recognize there might be a conflicting right at play, and that others are entitled to that right.
You’re dodging my other points. Like even as far as the civil rights act goes, you think that it’s not just fear-mongering to say it could be repealed? And act like that’s a totally legitimate point? What about that it makes your complaint about no state laws in 29 states completely irrelevant?
How about how you discriminate against Christians? If a Muslim had spoken up, you wouldn’t have said well some Muslims are terrorists so clean up your house first, right? Super offensive, right? How is this different? You’re making an individual with no known connection to wrongdoing guilty for the wrongdoing of others. That’s straight up bigotry.
Also, if you think democracy should control and certain things should not be left up to five black robes to decide, does that mean you support the repeal of both Obergefell and Roe v Wade? Both those issues were already being decided through democratic channels when the Supreme Court took it out of the public’s hands.
So you’re not calling the ministerial organization’s comments regarding the Pride Event “straight-up bigotry” but instead using Mr. Muchovej’s reply to their specific homophobic and utterly false statements as such. What he has pointed out is FACT, not discrimination against christians. Why on Earth is the Pride Event such a big focus point for these “ministers” and the Free Eastside group (of which at least one convicted pedophiles is a member, by the way) ? What are they so afraid of ?
That’s an interesting point you’re trying to make, Sally — that the Constitution is at odds with itself when it comes enshrining freedom of religion and freedom from discrimination. I’m no constitutional scholar, but as a human I can’t help but think that if discrimination against others is built in to your religion, you should probably find a different one.
“Homosexual people have the right to be in a family. They are children of God and have a right to a family.” – Pope Francis. In other words, you, Sally, have no right to judge.
You are one of the most judgemental commenters I have seen on these forums. And I don’t hold it against you to a point.. but as someone else recently pointed out.. you do have a holier than thou attitude that comes across in your posts.
You may want to stop and look in your mirror, as evidence of your own posting history speaks equally of you.
What we are is God’s gift to us, what we become is our gift to God. God does not approve of homosexuality.
Sally, seriously? God does not approve of homosexuality? How do you know? Did she tell you so herself? Please look at the cultural context in which the Bible was written ( by patriarchal value invested men) . Any other cult dogma you’d like to share?
As usual a comment by someone who clearly hasn’t read the entire Bible.
You are talking to people from your perspective that the Bible is the authority. Those whom you are debating with don’t believe that, so telling them to read the whole Bible is inane. May you be in peace living your best life and ceasing telling others what is right or wrong.
The bible is open to interpretation. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vc0Ijc4twZA
You clearly haven’t read about homosexuality in the Bible. It is a sin. God cannot sin. He can’t go against Himself. Please READ the Bible!
Why doesn’t God approve of homosexuality? Or bisexuality? Or etc, etc? Love is Love. Humans are born the way they are in their infinite variety. It’s not for you to say what is right or wrong- unless it’s hurting someone. Peace.
Intelligent discourse, Councilman Muchovej! Me thinks it may go over someone’s head….
So, are you saying homosexuality is a sin?
#1: So, yes, of course, churches will discriminate against gays. Thank you for confirming.
#2: You’re asserting that “social norms” cannot be challenged ?
#3: When a “christian leader” implies that a Pride Festival will be harmful to a community, it’s pretty much within reason to call out that BS and remind said leader who comprises his congregation.
#4: separation of church and state. done.
#5: Well, the author could have pointed out that the majority of those at the county supervisors’ meeting who spoke against the proclamation invoked their personal god and religion as reasons for opposition, expecting the county supervisors to accept that as reasonable and rational. again, see #4.
Ummm, only 31% of humankind believes in Christianity, so I think you better rethink your “vast majority” argument.
Ummm, your percentage is not true.
No JL, she’s about right. Google it.
I do not believe everything on Google, so I won’t be googling. And about right isn’t totally right, right?
JOlie.. If you are a saavy googler, you can look around anywhere and see that the percentage is right. Nobody is totally right, right?
Christians worldwide are about 31%, more like 75 to 80% in the USA, google it yourself. More people drive on the “wrong” side of the road too, worldwide. Who cares! You people go on and on about religion, etc. Transexual, gay lesbian, etc great, have a party, don’t expect me to be there., some of you are born that way, and some are confused and trying to prove something and annoy people. I say, STOP RUBBING YOUR GENITALS (or lack thereof) IN MY FACE. Keep your sexuality to yourself and your partner. I don’t love everyone, in spite of what Jesus said, neither do I hate you, just do your thing and leave me out, but stay away from kids, let them make their own mind
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I try not to read this stuff but its like a bad accident, I can’t look away. There are more important things in life than YOUR SEXUALITY!
Old Timer, we were talking worldwide.
Not that it’s anyone’s business, but I am heterosexual. I am just proud of Bishop for being more inclusive in a town that has not been so much on the past . As with most, you have zeroed in on the sexual aspect of the LGBTQ+ community. What it’s REALLY about is finally letting everyone be who they were born to be without fear of discrimination. You’ll be fine, and do will all the kids.. even more so.
No gay gene!
Homosexuality is about the perverted sexual aspect that is a result of their choices.
Quilting Grandma
Of that 31 % of believers,I wonder what the actual percent of that is people obeying the word of God and the Bible ?
My bet,and from my experience of witnessing myself,a good bet a lot lower…
Like the soft swingers of Utah?