CALTRANS, signs and realtors

When Caltrans workers removed For Sale signs near Highway 395 in recent weeks, realtors were not happy. Wednesday)realtors and others planned to meet and hoped to hear from Caltrans on what’s what with signs and the highway.

Stan Smith of Pleasant Valley Associates said he was surprised and not happy when he found out Caltrans had removed some of his For Sale signs, didn’t tell him, and put the signs at the Caltrans yard with no notice. In late May, Smith emailed Florene Trainor of Caltrans with questions on what appeared to be a new policy to remove For Sale and directional signs outside of Caltrans’ right of way.

Smith said at the time, Caltrans apparently let political signs remain but removed real estate signs. Smith said it appeared the Caltrans enforcement was selective and did not hit all stretches of Inyo and Mono.

Florene Trainor told Sierra Wave that Mr. Smith’s signs were “in our right of way.” However, she also said that if For Sale signs were placed outside of the right of way, that would be considered an off-site sign and not allowed. She indicated that signs have to be outside 660 feet from the State right of way. She maintained rules have been in place since 1960.

Smith and others have invited Caltrans to realtors’ meetings to help explain the policy. Another meeting was set for today at 8am at the Title Building in Bishop. The association of real estate broker-owners and agents were expected to be there, along with the Owens Valley Contractors & Vendors.

Smith said he believes the past Caltrans policy on signs or enforcement of the policy changed abruptly with no notice.

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Big AL
Big AL
9 years ago

Oh by the way Rules, I have only one, I was away from my computer so I used AL Grande … which is Spanish for Big AL, I voted on the BS side for ya there buddy, no worries.

Trouble
Trouble
9 years ago
Reply to  Big AL

nice to see the real Big Al back 🙂

Big AL
Big AL
9 years ago
Reply to  Trouble

LOL Trouble thank you. Mistaken .. I don’t think so, I don’t play the multi moniker game like some do here. The only other name I have used here is Al Grande, because I was using another computer. And I am partial to ice tea, straight up no sugar. But… Read more »

Rules
Rules
9 years ago

You must be one of those clowns that works for Caltrans(D9) in Bishop. What i think is funny is that Caltrans in Fresno(D6) creates all of your environmental docs either because Caltrans wants them hidden from people or because the Bishop employees do not have the necessary intelligence to write… Read more »

Big AL
Big AL
9 years ago
Reply to  Rules

LOL Rules .. keep the clown comments coming .. How do you conclude that removing illegal signs is illegal without due process of law? OK so .. help me and everyone else understand .. due process of law in this case? Can you quote something without presenting a link to… Read more »

JeanGenie
JeanGenie
9 years ago
Reply to  Rules

Rules, aren’t you and demographics one and the same?

Mistaken identity
Mistaken identity
9 years ago
Reply to  JeanGenie

JeanGenie, aren’t you and Big Al one and the same?

sierragrl
sierragrl
9 years ago

I understand the rule against the sign in the right of way, I hate it when temporary signs block your view when trying to pull out of a driveway or side street….but how can caltrans control 660 feet of other people’s property? That certainly doesn’t apply to realtor’s signs. they… Read more »

AL Grande
AL Grande
9 years ago
Reply to  sierragrl

It always has been in the past .. that anything within the right of way was illegal. Say for example, it was placed next to the stop sign at Gerkin and 395 or on the back slope of the ditch next to it .. that is considered within the right… Read more »

Mike
Mike
9 years ago

The link to the rules is found below. This goes back to the days of president Johnson to avoid billboards everywhere. Could you imagine the amount of sign pollution? On site advertising is okay, just not the offsite signs. Some are grandfathered, which is why you see signs in olancha… Read more »

AL Grande
AL Grande
9 years ago
Reply to  Mike

Rules, If people read all of your links, they can clearly see for themselves that what you are claiming is total folly! When are you going to present facts that show your case? And please help me understand how it is that removing illegally placed signs in the right of… Read more »

Rules
Rules
9 years ago
Reply to  AL Grande

Al, Am I stressing you to the point of staying up all night and refreshing your browser constantly. 1:35 AM posts are are proving I own you and Caltrans Im batting 1000 against your organization. Facts are based on law, I go to court and present facts. Have you ever… Read more »

Big AL
Big AL
9 years ago
Reply to  Rules

LOL Rules, I must be stressing you because so far I have presented facts, you have only presented clown statements and allegations. Yeah I am usually up late so .. yeah I come check to see what is going on on the site. I’m having a ball how about you?… Read more »

you know the type
you know the type
9 years ago
Reply to  Big AL

Big Al is no doubt a Big TeaPartier.

Jeremiah
Jeremiah
9 years ago
Reply to  Rules

Rules, I dont know what channels you are watching but I see hardly any accountability for when Gov’t Officials, public reps, law enforcement, Gov’t entitys, politicians, etc. I rarely see them put in check when they break a law. So if you are the guy to do that then you… Read more »

Mark
Mark
9 years ago
Reply to  Mike

What a bunch of crap.

It’s time the tribe join the rest of the Country and quit getting special treatment.

Jeremiah
Jeremiah
9 years ago
Reply to  Mark

Yeah Right like the Tribes are the only organization that get special treatment! Tribal Sovereignty might be hard for you to swallow but it is the least the Tribes that surround the valley should be granted. This whole valley should be reservation boundary considering the cultural significance, The Bow and… Read more »

Hummingbirds
Hummingbirds
9 years ago
Reply to  Mark

Hummingbirds do not like to share. They are naturally territorial and will fight over your hummingbird feeder – no matter how much food you give them. The best tactic is to hang another feeder far enough away so that feeding hummingbirds cannot see each other. Blogs like this are no… Read more »

Benett Kessler
Benett Kessler
9 years ago
Reply to  Hummingbirds

So, are you saying that the act of communication always creates ego conflicts?
Benett

Hummingbirds
Hummingbirds
9 years ago
Reply to  Benett Kessler

So, are you saying that the act of communication always creates ego conflicts? Benett I love it when you play attorney, Benett. No. Conflict arises from political blogs such as these. And like the hummingbirds, those attracted to that type of nectar are like Timothy McVeigh and just want to… Read more »

Benett Kessler
Benett Kessler
9 years ago
Reply to  Hummingbirds

I’m familiar with the story of the Tower of Babel, but this does not mean we have to engage in adversarial conversations. We can talk to each other with intelligence and thoughtfulness and forthrightness about what’s really on our minds – if you just want to fight with me, I’m… Read more »

What the ...?
What the ...?
9 years ago
Reply to  Benett Kessler

Eh?

Are you saying putting words into another person’s mouth is stellar journalism?

Benett Kessler
Benett Kessler
9 years ago
Reply to  What the ...?

Dear What,

If you have already decided I am an unethical liar, okay. I disagree and have no interest in debating untruths.
On the other hand, if you want to discuss matters openly, I’m with you. Your above comment is too vague.
Benett Kessler

Benett Kessler
Benett Kessler
9 years ago
Reply to  What the ...?

Let’s have an example of “putting words into another person’s mouth.”
If you want to complain, that’s fine. But be up front about what you are complaining about.
Or, as one commenter suggested, call me and let’s talk about your issues. 760-937-3295.
Benett

Benett Kessler
Benett Kessler
9 years ago
Reply to  Benett Kessler

Like I said to the other anonymous person, let’s hear examples of putting words into peoples’ mouths. It may sometimes
seem incredible what people say, but I meticulously quote them.
BK

H
H
9 years ago

Oh boo hoo…. quit your belly aching, have some whine with your cheese, and keep your signs out of the public right of way… Did you ever think that signs in the”public right of way” are a distraction. If it causes one accident, then the law is justified…. What, do… Read more »

Rules
Rules
9 years ago
Reply to  H

Stealing personal property is a serious issue.

Respect the law

AL Grande
AL Grande
9 years ago
Reply to  Rules

So tell me how you see it as stealing .. .. when it is illegal in the first place? when it is given back on request? If you want to make a case here rules, then make it .. correctly with facts .. I stated the facts as well as… Read more »

Rules
Rules
9 years ago
Reply to  H

Al is clearly wrong. Why is he trying to bully my protected right.

http://www.firstamendmentcenter.org/political-yard-signs

AL Grande
AL Grande
9 years ago
Reply to  Rules

LOL bullying eh? for stating how I see it? Get the facts straight rules .. lol the link is about signs put in people’s yards and or private property. So you say you have sued the state many times? so you are a lawyer or someone who sues the state?… Read more »

Rules
Rules
9 years ago
Reply to  AL Grande

For everyone interested in this discussion I will give you the inside scoop. An FHWA employee, probably from the Sacramento office drove the soon to be Federal Aid Highway in Olancha and saw the signs. They punked Caltrans and told them to remove the signs or they wouldnt fund the… Read more »

Big AL
Big AL
9 years ago
Reply to  Rules

“They punked Caltrans” That is a clown comment Rules, you are not making any points that you so desperately need by making comments like that. “The Caltrans office in Bishop needed to vent their frustration because they got punked so they removed the signs by illegal means and without due… Read more »

Benett Kessler
Benett Kessler
9 years ago
Reply to  Big AL

Big Al, Stay tuned. We at Sierra Wave hope to get to the truth of all this.
BK

AL Grande
AL Grande
9 years ago
Reply to  Rules

Thats a clown comment Bro. .. that’s a clown comment.

Big AL
Big AL
9 years ago
Reply to  AL Grande

Right on Benett

JeanGenie
JeanGenie
9 years ago

I could be wrong, but I’m sure there are plenty of signs in the city limits of Bishop that are far closer tothe right-of way than 660 ft. What about them?

Liberty Bell
Liberty Bell
9 years ago

“…signs have to be outside 660 feet from the State right of way.” Wow! 660 feet sounds reasonable considering that this distance is beyond the scope of the human eye’s ability to notice, or read signs anyway. [sarcasm] This is very sad. Even when free market enterprise(Stan Smith) attempts to… Read more »

upthecreek
upthecreek
9 years ago
Reply to  Liberty Bell

I wonder how long a population will allow a “government gone wild”
to continue down this path towards self destruction.

Bravo the people are starting to figure it out
I have been saying this for 10 years

GGW

you reap what you sow
you reap what you sow
9 years ago
Reply to  upthecreek

“a government gone wild”

Another teabagger who listens to Glenn Beck too much.

upthecreek
upthecreek
9 years ago

Sorry Charlie …Don t listen to Glenn beck and never have.
I just happen to be awake to the Ponzi scheme they call Government.

. one day you will figure this out for yourself..

GGW

Big AL
Big AL
9 years ago
Reply to  Liberty Bell

LOL Liberty bell donging wild, legislation such as California Out Door Advertisement Act was not enacted to ruin business, it was enacted to control advertisement adjacent to the highways, roads and streets. Basically, if there was no control .. advertisements and illegal signs would run rampant, drowning out the necessary… Read more »

Big Rick O'Brien
Big Rick O'Brien
9 years ago
Reply to  Big AL

From over 2 football fields away, I couldn’t make out my WIFE, much less a sign that says HOUSE FOR SALE.

Rules
Rules
9 years ago
Reply to  Big AL

i read the manual and 5460-5465 provides for the proper way to remove signs. It states nothing about Opie removing them illegally and keeping them at the district office. Caltrans should follow their own procedures, which btw is not the law. The Caltrans manual is an interpretation of the law.… Read more »

AL Grande
AL Grande
9 years ago
Reply to  Rules

Define illegal removal from a state right of way … of an illegal encroachment .. in this case any sign placed without permission or permit?

You’re really showing a good case for yourself rules .. quoting code and such or .. partially quoting codes and such.

Rules
Rules
9 years ago
Reply to  AL Grande

The ROW is dedicated to the people? It’s everyone’s right of way to use. Get the facts. There’s a reason Caltrans manual(which is useless in a court of law) does not reference “within the States ROW”. It’s our ROW. Mine, yours and everyones, not Al’s and his buddies ROW. I’ve… Read more »

Rules
Rules
9 years ago
Reply to  Big AL

Cal Code 2441 requires that written notice be sent by registered mail from Director or authorized person to the owner of the sign. It must state the code violations with citations and offer the sign owner the opportunity to appeal the decision to the director or authorized person. It’s called… Read more »

AL Grande
AL Grande
9 years ago
Reply to  Rules

Good luck with that rules.

Rules
Rules
9 years ago
Reply to  Big AL

when is the last time the state paid out for an accident involving a sign? Much less a real estate sign. How many bullies, er I mean lawyers you got at Caltrans. 1000, 1500 more? People are trying to feed their families and provide the County with some money. Caltrans… Read more »

sierragrl
sierragrl
9 years ago
Reply to  Rules

you’re hilarious!

Get Real Yourself
Get Real Yourself
9 years ago
Reply to  Rules

I think the point is what gives a private entity the right to profit from the public right-of-way. How would Mr. Smith feel if someone put a sign up on his private property without his persmission? I’m sure he would take it down immediately. What is good for the goose… Read more »

AL Grande
AL Grande
9 years ago
Reply to  Rules

You don’t even know what you’re talking about rules .. But as far as people trying to feed their families .. nice try on that too .. they can do it just as well with out breaking the “rules” People like you spout lot of junk .. it’s just a… Read more »

Rules
Rules
9 years ago
Reply to  AL Grande

Thats a clown comment Bro. Last time I checked Americans still had rights and everyone has to respect them. Mabe not Sandusky, and a few others. But I checked before this post and America has not abolished all of our rights YET. The links below provide proper instructions for legally… Read more »

Trouble
Trouble
9 years ago

Sounds like cal-trans has nothing better to do. I guess we all need more snow next winter.

upthecreek
upthecreek
9 years ago

here is a sign they need to post

“Government gone Wild”

Big AL
Big AL
9 years ago

Out door advertising rules .. have been applied here, which in in fact have been in place since 1960. Requiring people or businesses to apply for a permit to place advertisement signs along the highway, off of the right of way. No advertisements or political signs shall be placed within… Read more »

rules
rules
9 years ago
Reply to  Big AL

big al. its not that we dont trust you, but could you provide links to the rules your “quoting”.

some Humor
some Humor
9 years ago

Maybe they moved the sign to 395 and 203 turn-off to Mammoth Lakes!