Ministers and citizens piled into the Bishop City Council chambers Monday night for public comment. They wanted to say more about the City’s new guidelines on prayers before Council meetings. City Attorney Peter Tracy first gave them all a civics lesson on freedom of religion.
Tracy went back to England before the foundation of America. He told of the “great amount of religious discrimination” and the eventual birth of the Church of England. He said a main motivation of the colonials was the exercise of freedom of religion which eventually led to the First Amendment of the Constitution. Tracy said it means government can not “establish or support a given religion. When the rubber meets the road, it’s difficult,” he said.
In Bishop, where the Christian religion dominates, some ministers and citizens said they were offended that the City made rules to eliminate specific mentions of Jesus Christ in the public prayers. Tracy tried to show the protestors that the law and court cases support this kind of limitation in city government because of the separation of church and state.
The City Attorney also pointed to potential attorneys fees if the City were sued by an outside party. Those attorneys, he said, could collect as much as $300,000 or more. Tracy said, “This is the risk the City has with taxpayers’ dollars.” When Rajan Zed of Reno asked to deliver a Hindu prayer at the City Council last month, Tracy said denial would have been risky so the Council adopted guidelines.
Mayor Dave Stottlemyre said the Council would put this issue on a future agenda for further discussion. Then the public spoke. Wesley Bloom said he would like to see the guidelines reversed. He said, “It grieves me very much that our decisions are based on the fear of lawsuits. This compromises our freedoms.”
Father Gracey said church and state should not rule one another. Gayla Wolf called the lack of religion in public “a growing cancer.” Pam Mitchell said she is a Christian and appreciates people voicing their feelings, but supports praying in private not publicly. Said Mitchell, “I never felt cut off and denied regarding prayers in public meetings. Everyone should be free to worship as they want.”
More on all of this at a future Bishop City Council meeting.
This is the city that couldn’t make a decision about chickens without putting it out to a costly vote. Do we really expect they can make a decision about God or The Constitution?
Most of our City Council members are just their for their free medical insurance.
We are literally stardust —
http://www.lyricsfreak.com/j/joni+mitchell/woodstock_20075381.html
We are allowed to talk Good or Bad about any religion and allowed to practice or forget any religion here in America. If you may get offended by somebody talking bad about your religion its a sad day for you. if your offended because Jesus Christ was left out of… Read more »
Jeremiah speaks of a “Creator” god, as is the notion most of us were raised with. Having been born with an inquisitive mind, though I am open to such an idea, there is simply not enough evidence (for me) to support what I was told as a little kid to… Read more »
See Mammoth, your not the only one with screwed up polititians.
Is Bishop in Alabama?
What kind of “Christians” are you talking about, JaneE?
Baptist Christians?
Roman Catholic Christians?
Eastern Orthodox Christians?
Pentecostal Christians?
Evangelical Christians?
Protestants?
Mormons?
Lutherans?
Anglicans?
Presbyterians?
Methodists?
Congregationalists?
Trinitarians?
Non-Trinitarians?
All are self-proclaimed “Christians” each saying they are the one, true, Church.
Christ in one’s heart, or ones faith in Jesus Christ is what it means to be a Christian, a disciple or follower of Christ. You don’t have to call yourself one of the above listed church members to be a Christian, though you might align your ideals with one of… Read more »
“…If you want to know what true Christianity is .. look at the life of Mother Theresa.” I’m SO glad you didn’t ask to look at the life of Mitt Romney, Big Al. I don’t think anyone wants to get into the examination of Mormonism at the moment. Or should… Read more »
People who adamantly defy the explicit teaching of Jesus Christ are not Christians. See Matthew 6, 5-6. If these self-proclaimed Christians actually did what Jesus taught them to do, this would not be an issue.
Sorry about my spelling. Long day.
Don’t worry be happy
In every life we have some trouble,
when you worry you make it double
don’t worry, be happy
Don’t worry be happy
Don’t worry, it will soon pass whatever it is,
Don’t worry, be happy,
Don’t worry be happy
be happy now
instead of a prayer, how about an affirmation regarding the roles and duties of the council members before each meeting….it’s always a good idea to remind each other why you’re there and what it is you’re suppose to be accomplishing. Something like ‘to evaluate all sides before making thoughtful decisions… Read more »
How about they spend our money on new sidewalks, instead of giving it to the lawyers. P.S. chance in hell they when this one.
Yeah Trouble, now they made that stupid looking orange sidewalk on the side of city hall it stands out like a sore thumb, who’s idea was that?
Well Bridgeport is in the process of doing the same thing on school street.
Love your idea sierragrl! Hope the city council members and any future council members are reading. In fact, wouldn’t it be nice if Congress made such an affirmation before the start of each day?
Any recognition of religion by a government entity is wrong. The public can gripe all they want about the lack of Christian prayers at these meetings or Hindu, or whatever; but as an atheist I find religion (even a prayer) in a public, government meeting offensive and unconstitutional. We are… Read more »
“…the meaning of the establishment clause of the First Amendment should not be stretched beyond its intended dimensions by precluding voluntary prayer in our public schools”
– Conservative high-priest, Rush Limbaugh
I’ll bet you still use money!!! In God we trust!
Doggiestyle–
FYI- “In God We Trust” didn’t show up until the 1860s and not on all currency until 1909..
The pledge of allegiance also didn’t have a reference to God until 1954.
Religion has no business in govertment for people in power to use against its subjects.
cool fact john, I didn’t know that. I bet Washington would not be a happy camper to see the words ‘in god we trust’ next to his head on the quarter after how hard he and others worked to insure a separation of church and state….’out of many, one’- the… Read more »
@ John Barton … Doggiestyle– … just shows your character .. nice dig.
Eastern Sierra Local- thou it sounds like I am more religious than you, I agree with you 100%. I don’t need my goverment telling me when,where and even to whom to pray. Our city council needs to work on fixing our sidewalks.
The simplest solution is what out founding fathers envisioned— separation of church and state. Keep religion at your home, private service or place of worship. This should keep everyone happy and promote respect and tolerance for others’ beliefs.
It is probably better not to have any negative forces at work within a gathering if we are hoping for a postive result or experience from the public expression of faith. Going to a church or any other place of worship including down by the river or on the mountaintop,… Read more »
The far-right (Limbaughites) believes they are the only “true Americans” and that Christianity is the only “true Religion” for America.
Therein lies a huge problem.
I think it is sad that our City Council has chosen to make this our major local issue. There are limits to free speech and the separation of church and state is the one limit clearly spelled out in our constitution.
Prayers should be left for when there is absolutely nothing else to do.
But then there is always something else to do, isn’t there?
There is for me,
=
Lets not forget where Mr. Tracy was with regard to the Mammoth Lakes Lawsuit (remember, it was not his purview). Bishop should seriously think like Mammoth Lakes and get a new City Attorney.
So what does that have to do with this issue JJ?
JJ’s saying Tracy isn’t a very good lawyer, and I agree. Although, espicially around here, is there such a thing?
I hear ya Jean .. I totally get it .. but what Tracy said in his description of it .. is true .. it’s all about law suits, in this case he explained the history of it. That is all it is .. but why does JJ have to throw… Read more »
As I have stated before on this subject, I feel a call to prayer is not offensive if it is done privately. As has been the case in some venues, to call for prayer if you so choose to pray for matters at hand, have a time to pray silently.… Read more »
Amen!
I guess I don’t get it. Why do we have a prayer before council meetings? Wouldn’t that solve the problem by not having one??
I completely agree. I feel that everyone who wants to include prayer in their city council meeting should enjoy doing so privately under the umbrella of whatever religion they practice, be it Christian or Hindu.
The liberal view • Not everyone in every classroom has the same religious beliefs. Forcing every child to say the same prayer, or any prayer at all, amounts to coercion. Our Founding Fathers were careful to protect the religious freedom of minorities by making religion a private matter, separate from… Read more »
I’m sorry but you are not checking the facts….
Correct. It’s just that the conservative view is bullsh*t…
Keep prayers and church matters out of government, plain and simple. If you want to go to Church, go. If you want to say prayers, pray privately but don’t put prayers in a public venue as some people are offended with private beliefs forced upon them in public.
K. Lee, please send a memo to those dastardly religious extremists at the Supreme Court (whose walls bear the Ten Commandments) and the U.S. Treasury (which has the unmitigated effrontery to print “In God We Trust” on our currency). Please also reeducate Congress, which opens daily with a prayer, to… Read more »
Hey, Tourbillon, sounds like you got up on the wrong side of the bed, so to speak. K.Lee’s comment was just an opinion.
It didn’t sound like “pedantically lecturing”. Your comment kind of does. Just my view.
Benett
I find myself oddly agreeing with Tourbillion. There is a lot of — pandering I guess is a good word — a lot of pandering to the self labeled religious people. It’s hard to know where fake religion that is worn on the sleeve ends and were true belief (in… Read more »
Ken, a lot of what you mention, namely that last comment is all about what mans says about God and Who He is. God doesn’t puff Himself up, He says, I am who I am. You’re right though, someone who is truly in a relationship with God, does not boast… Read more »
I meant to say pro choice issues.
WOW! Somebody should of told our Founding Fathers that… We would have no Constitution if they believed that way. If you chip away our rights to speak publicly about our belief in God whats next? I am offended by cus words but I don’t yell and slander the person that… Read more »
What occurs at public meetings of governmental bodies is different. Peter Tracy gave a good run-down of the history of our freedoms
and the fact that the courts are upholding the First Amendment.
Benett Kessler
Most other cities have already adopted similar policies, because the fact is you will get sued, and you will lose.
Doggiestyle- You can walk up and down Main Street any time of day waiving a “Praise Allah” or “Jesus Loves You” sign. In public people have a choice to ignore you, talk to you or run away, therefore your rights are intact in public. Hearing one ramble on about their… Read more »
Uh-oh! This ought to whip the already foaming-at-the-mouth neocons into even MORE foaming-at-the-mouth frenzy. “Those who would undermine America [secularists] … know they have to first chip away at the faith of Americans, at their very spiritual foundations. Secularists, in the world of the dittoheads, are subversive anti-faith infidels who… Read more »
I appreciate your comments but would be more interested in what you think of the church vs. state than Limbaugh.
Thanks again for participating,
Benett Kessler
Sirius XM Radio has a base of 18.5 million subscribers as of 2009. American Top 40 attracts over 20 million listeners per week. Rush Limbaugh’s show has been the number one commercial talk show since at least 1991 when record keeping began. Judging from some of the bizarre far-right comments… Read more »
So far the only one who has penned “I hate liberals” is you. So far the vast majority of the bile-filled political tripe on this blog has been reliably from the Left. We get it – progressives all hate – truly hate – anything conservative and seem to relish that… Read more »
I’m with Steve! The only negative political posts seem to be from the left via a “foaming at the mouth rant”. Maybe some of the lefties are here just to have a place to release and if that’s all you’re looking to do then find another place to be your… Read more »
“The NAACP should have riot rehearsal. They should get a liquor store and practice robberies.”
-Conservative guru Rush Limbaugh
Are you obsessed with Limbaugh? You’re the one that seems to be ‘foaming-at-the-mouth’. Please turn off your radio and get some fresh air.
I’m going to have to get out my dictionary to figure out what it is that your babaling about now chief.
Chief Neocon, Do you secretly have this love affair with listening to Limbaugh? You seem to know all of his rants pretty well! I say this because I haven’t heard any of the folks commenting here mention his name or his ideas at all….. but you however appear to know… Read more »